Blood Rites foreshadowing

[EBRIEN]

Just a very tiny detail near the end of the book...minuscule.

When Lara is about to have her way with Lord Raith, she is described as Wintry.

Like I said---Minuscule, but telling.

Anyhow--Have a great weekend!

Cheers and best to all---B

[Regenbogen]

Nice find. Do you think she will one day replace Mab or the Winter Lady?

I think she is more suited to be Mab's replacement. The whole Winter Lady virgin thing would not be so nice for Lara.

[Lord Kinbote]

I expect a family pattern to be acknowledged in 12 Months.  Maggie Sr. is the consort of (marries?) the head of the White Court.  Her son Harry is engaged to marry the successor head of the White Court, Lara.

That also suggests a hidden truth.  Harry is the Winter Court's White Knight.  Did Maggie Sr. also have as of yet unknown status in the Winter Court, or was she otherwise beholden to the Winter Court via Lea like Harry?  And is Harry's betrothal Mab's second attempt to use one of her vassals to ally with the White Court?  Or maybe used for some more devious machination?  Mab quickly deciding to marry Harry off to ally with the White Court makes me think Mab's up to something else or at least some additional else - maybe she needs a second spy/provocateur within the White Court because of suspicions that the White Court may have an agenda adverse to Mab or even the Summer Court.  I have no idea or even a WAG but put me down as suspicious, waiting for another shoe or two to drop.

[EBRIEN]

Nice find. Do you think she will one day replace Mab or the Winter Lady?

I think she is more suited to be Mab's replacement. The whole Winter Lady virgin thing would not be so nice for Lara.

Good question. I mean...if Lara becomes either, who leads the White Court? Thomas? Agree, Queen is a much better fit than Lady. I think Mab recognizes like-minded individuals. Lara is calculating like Mab.

[EBRIEN]

I expect a family pattern to be acknowledged in 12 Months.  Maggie Sr. is the consort of (marries?) the head of the White Court.  Her son Harry is engaged to marry the successor head of the White Court, Lara.

That also suggests a hidden truth.  Harry is the Winter Court's White Knight.  Did Maggie Sr. also have as of yet unknown status in the Winter Court, or was she otherwise beholden to the Winter Court via Lea like Harry?  And is Harry's betrothal Mab's second attempt to use one of her vassals to ally with the White Court?  Or maybe used for some more devious machination?  Mab quickly deciding to marry Harry off to ally with the White Court makes me think Mab's up to something else or at least some additional else - maybe she needs a second spy/provocateur within the White Court because of suspicions that the White Court may have an agenda adverse to Mab or even the Summer Court.  I have no idea or even a WAG but put me down as suspicious, waiting for another shoe or two to drop.

I'm curious how long Lord Raith's Outsider magic immunity continues once Harry digs into the Raith household and library of the arcane. His mind is probably close to gone at this point, but magically, he's probably still immune.

Perhaps Mab is tracing the Outside connection. We shall see.

[Mira]

I'm curious how long Lord Raith's Outsider magic immunity continues once Harry digs into the Raith household and library of the arcane. His mind is probably close to gone at this point, but magically, he's probably still immune.

Perhaps Mab is tracing the Outside connection. We shall see.

That might be what Mab wants to get at, if anyone can get to the bottom of things it will be Harry. 

[g33k]

I'm curious how long Lord Raith's Outsider magic immunity continues once Harry digs into the Raith household and library of the arcane. His mind is probably close to gone at this point, but magically, he's probably still immune.

Perhaps Mab is tracing the Outside connection. We shall see.

There's Papa Raith's immunity, Vitto's Outsider-summoning (that disabled dozens of potent Earthly minds),
and the fact that Justine seemingly got Nemfected from hanging around Lara (and thus, Raith's Outsider Library) ... once (they say) is bad luck; twice is a coincidence; three times is enemy action.

The Outsiders have deeply-infiltrated the Whampires.

Mab is tossing a Dresden Grenade into that bunker.

[Mira]

There's Papa Raith's immunity, Vitto's Outsider-summoning (that disabled dozens of potent Earthly minds),
and the fact that Justine seemingly got Nemfected from hanging around Lara (and thus, Raith's Outsider Library) ... once (they say) is bad luck; twice is a coincidence; three times is enemy action.

The Outsiders have deeply-infiltrated the Whampires.

Mab is tossing a Dresden Grenade into that bunker.

I concur with this theory..  It fits with my theory that Justine had been infested from the beginning.  Lord Raith knows full well who the half brother of Thomas is, he may even know what Harry is, so Justine infected thrown together with Thomas as a way to control him.  Also knowing that Thomas and Harry will get together at some point so eventually a way to get at Harry.  And as we saw at the end of Battleground it almost worked.

[LordDresden2]

There's Papa Raith's immunity, Vitto's Outsider-summoning (that disabled dozens of potent Earthly minds),
and the fact that Justine seemingly got Nemfected from hanging around Lara (and thus, Raith's Outsider Library) ... once (they say) is bad luck; twice is a coincidence; three times is enemy action.

The Outsiders have deeply-infiltrated the Whampires.

Have they?  Or were the White Vampires always closely tied up with the Outsiders?

Remember that a favorite swear term among them is 'Empty Night'.  IIRC, that's the title of the last book in the series, too.  Harry and Elaine picked up 'stars and stones' from Justin, and IIRC Ebenezar at one point rebuked Harry for using it, too.  Justin and Margaret were mixed up with the Court, too.

I wonder if the phages themselves are some kind of outsider.

[LordDresden2]

I concur with this theory..  It fits with my theory that Justine had been infested from the beginning.  Lord Raith knows full well who the half brother of Thomas is, he may even know what Harry is, so Justine infected thrown together with Thomas as a way to control him.  Also knowing that Thomas and Harry will get together at some point so eventually a way to get at Harry.  And as we saw at the end of Battleground it almost worked.

My only problem with that idea is that it has a lot of moving parts that have to play out just right.  Sort of like the theory that Martin wanted Harry and Susan to get together in Death Masks.

Yeah, LR, Lara, Nicodemus, Marcone, Mab, Martin, etc. are all chessmasters, but there are still limits to how far ahead they can calculate and how many moving parts they can juggle.  If Justine has been nemfected all along, that would mean lots of opportunities for someone to detect it.  Suppose a rival WV offs Thomas and claims Justine?  Suppose some circumstance forced her to handle a Sword?  If Harry is her target in LR's plot, suppose he happens to be with Rashid at some point when she's near him?

That's a lot of variables that he just can't control.

[Mira]

My only problem with that idea is that it has a lot of moving parts that have to play out just right.  Sort of like the theory that Martin wanted Harry and Susan to get together in Death Masks.

Yeah, LR, Lara, Nicodemus, Marcone, Mab, Martin, etc. are all chessmasters, but there are still limits to how far ahead they can calculate and how many moving parts they can juggle.  If Justine has been nemfected all along, that would mean lots of opportunities for someone to detect it.  Suppose a rival WV offs Thomas and claims Justine?  Suppose some circumstance forced her to handle a Sword?  If Harry is her target in LR's plot, suppose he happens to be with Rashid at some point when she's near him?

That's a lot of variables that he just can't control.

I think it very possible that Justine could go along neminfected and no one notice it.  Why? Because like Voldermort, no one was even saying the name.  Harry had to force a name, Nemesis, out of Titania and even Mother Summer and Mother Winter do not speak the name, they call it the "Enemy."  So it lurks in the shadows unnoticed, even when he is well aware of Nemesis, Harry cannot spot that Justine is possessed by an Outsider until she nearly kills him to gain access to Demonreach.  Don't you think it just a bit odd that Justine is "insane" and is set up to be the lover/kine for Thomas by Lord Raith and becomes "cured" because Thomas was feeding off of her emotions and this leveled things out?  It just died away not to return when he wasn't feeding?

Here is a very telling point I think.  Justine and Thomas had true love, once that happened he couldn't touch her unless she wore a rubber suit to protect him from being burned.. It wasn't until she had sex with another that that changed and then she could have sex once more with Thomas.. However if it was always that simple, why didn't she do it sooner?  I mean she waits until the end of Ghost Story when Harry was thought to be dead! 

[g33k]

... he couldn't touch her unless she wore a rubber suit to protect him from being burned.. It wasn't until she had sex with another that that changed and then she could have sex once more with Thomas.. However if it was always that simple, why didn't she do it sooner? ...

This bothers me, too.

Not just with the Thomas/Justine:  why TF is this (obvious) method not part of the toolkit that every whampire knows??!?

They use sex for feeding their Hunger... but also as a critical tool for political power.
They're used to thinking of sex, and sexual permutations, as tools.
They have zero expectations of sexual fidelity:  each Whampire has multiple kine, and many kine get passed around amongst the Whamps; gifted, loaned, traded, &c.

They know of "sex outside of love" as the "magic key" to get past the "True Love" protections.
They should know "have willing, friendly sex to break TL protections" and then renew said protections (when they make love to their TL) as the way to move forward.

[Mira]

They know of "sex outside of love" as the "magic key" to get past the "True Love" protections.
They should know "have willing, friendly sex to break TL protections" and then renew said protections (when they make love to their TL) as the way to move forward.

Yes, and supposedly Justine and Thomas had true love over several books and short stories because Thomas mentions it. So what gives?  Oh here is another one that doesn't quite fit, unless I am not remembering it correctly, in Blood Rites Justine supposedly was willing to sacrifice herself to save Thomas, an act of true love, right?  But because of his true love for her, Thomas stopped short of killing her in order to save himself.. So why didn't he just burn up?