A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors

[g33k]

Mm, maybe Marcone is even called Arthur. We do not know his real name.

That whole "secret identity / hidden ancestry" bit is certainly part of some versions of the Arthur legendarium...  I like it!

[LordDresden2]

Au contraire:  Harry getting Winterknight'ed is an incredibly good thing.

Harry's a Starborn, with notable anti-Outsider abilities.
Winter is the primary force opposing Outsiders, protecting Creation at the Outer Gates; and the Knight is "Winter's Champion."

A Starborn Winter Knight?  Huge, huge power-up for Harry Dresden in protecting Creation; huge, huge power-up for Mab's WK (compared to Slate).  win-win all 'round

No, it isn't.  It might make Harry more badass, but 'more badass' is independent of 'good'.  Taking up a Coin would make Harry more badass, too, but it wouldn't be a Good Thing.

For Harry, being enslaved by Mab is by definition bad.  The fate of Lloyd Slate alone is proof enough of that.

[Lord Kinbote]

Bad for Harry, probably.  Bad for the Dresden reality, and everything and everybody that Harry loves?  Almost assuredly not - unless you think the Outsiders prevail notwithstanding power-upped Harry's best efforts, and the series ends with Empty Night.

I think the bigger Qs are whether Harry is the Jon Snow of this series and he's not the hero who prevails over the Outsiders, and whether Harry survives at the end.

[Mira]

No, it isn't.  It might make Harry more badass, but 'more badass' is independent of 'good'.  Taking up a Coin would make Harry more badass, too, but it wouldn't be a Good Thing.

For Harry, being enslaved by Mab is by definition bad.  The fate of Lloyd Slate alone is proof enough of that.

The thing is I don't think Mab wants an enslaved Knight.  She wants her Knight to be loyal, Slate wasn't, that is why he met the fate he met.  She also wants a Knight who will follow orders, but at the same time use his own head. While Harry may piss her off when he follows orders his way and not hers, she also trusts his judgement.  That's why I think the Knight is a mortal human and not one of the Fae.  In a way, her Knight is another check on her absolute power and she knows it.  Mab has to have a Knight who will stand up to her when needed, not a slave who follows every order to the letter.  That's why though pissed, she is pleased and says so when Harry defies her.

[g33k]

...
For Harry, being enslaved by Mab is by definition bad.  The fate of Lloyd Slate alone is proof enough of that.

Harry thinks so.

But he's not actually "enslaved."  He's caught in a bargain he cannot currently escape from; but it's a bargain he substantively got to shape, to set some baselines.  He's continuously pushing back against Mab, standing up for what he thinks is right.

And we have the word of both Mother Summer and Uriel, that Harry can keep being Harry, can keep on pushing back, keep on being himself.

[Mira]

Harry thinks so.

But he's not actually "enslaved."  He's caught in a bargain he cannot currently escape from; but it's a bargain he substantively got to shape, to set some baselines.  He's continuously pushing back against Mab, standing up for what he thinks is right.

And we have the word of both Mother Summer and Uriel, that Harry can keep being Harry, can keep on pushing back, keep on being himself.

Doesn't matter what Harry thinks, he may think he is being enslaved, but he doesn't act enslaved.  That's the whole point of Uriel's seven words, in the end it's up to Harry, and he remains himself.  Harry has a vital job as Winter Knight, just as Rashid does as Gatekeeper, it requires that they are who they are, Mab knows that.

[LordDresden2]

Doesn't matter what Harry thinks, he may think he is being enslaved, but he doesn't act enslaved.  That's the whole point of Uriel's seven words, in the end it's up to Harry, and he remains himself.  Harry has a vital job as Winter Knight, just as Rashid does as Gatekeeper, it requires that they are who they are, Mab knows that.

Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's the compulsory marriage to Lara.  At the end of Battleground, Harry is musing about just how trapped he is.

[Mira]

Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's the compulsory marriage to Lara.  At the end of Battleground, Harry is musing about just how trapped he is.

No, he isn't free, but none of us are really, it depends on how you look at it.  We have to see how this latest order from Mab plays out.  At the moment it is an order, but nothing that simple for either Harry or Lara, neither responds well to "orders."  Yes, there is a physical attraction there, part because there just is for a number of reasons and part because of White Vampire "chemistry" or whatever it is.  Yes, it is an order, the inclination of both Harry and Lara is not just to say "no" but "HELL NO!"  However both Lara and Harry are very rational beings, and even if it doesn't seem that way now, they do have a series of choices to make based on whatever information they receive or events of the moment.   If both can see a real need for this union, it will happen, because it must happen.  If both cannot see a real need for this union, it won't happen no matter how much pressure Mab cares to lay on.. And if it doesn't, she will smile and say," at last the Knight I've been looking for.."  I wouldn't at all be shocked if it turns out to be just another one of her little tests and exercises that she feels are needed to shape the star born one destined to lead the troops in the final BAT.

[g33k]

Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's the compulsory marriage to Lara...

Nevertheless, Harry isn't free.  Just for a current example, there's little Maggie -- and Bonea -- and his responsibilities there.

Nobody is "free" in the sense of being unencumbered by any obligations to others.

Harry's obligations to Mab run a bit to the brutal side of things, it's true.  Still, it's the life Harry chose.

[Nooneofconsequence]

So here is a thought, tangent to the multiverse hypothesis.  Are the microfictions, and I am specifically thinking of Morgan's,  from the POV of the, for lack of a better term, "main timeline" versions of the character?

[Dina]

So here is a thought, tangent to the multiverse hypothesis.  Are the microfictions, and I am specifically thinking of Morgan's,  from the POV of the, for lack of a better term, "main timeline" versions of the character?

Ah! That is a very clever idea. I like the way your mind works.
Mmm, perhaps a rereading is in order.

[peterwiggin94]

I really like this idea. I feel like Jim usually has the next couple of books in his head at any time so he could definitely had started this multiverse idea back in Cold Days with the Molly car scene. Based on it and the continuity errors we've seen, I suspect that there will only be a few timelines that are dealt with or that interact with other. It'll be more like Fringe than Rick and Morty in that respect.

[Mira]

Harry's obligations to Mab run a bit to the brutal side of things, it's true.  Still, it's the life Harry chose.

Is she?  Or does she have to be hard so that humanity can survive?  We are always assuming that Mab is this evil monster because Harry was so afraid of her in the early books.. Is she? I think Rashid is right, neither the White Council nor many others fully understand the battle he and Harry wage to keep the world safe from Outsiders.. I also don't think Rashid would serve an evil monster.

[Dina]

To be honest, Mab was quite hard in her first appearances. I mean, we have no reason to believe she is evil per se but she is not only ruthless but apparently a sadist. Later, that was not so much the case. So, even when I agree with you Mira that Harry was quite biased in his storytelling, there are some facts that justified his perception.

[Nooneofconsequence]

The statement that none of us are really free, makes me think of a t-shirt I saw once.
It read " I'd be Unstoppable if not for Law Enforcement & Physics."