Where do you go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires?

[vincentric]

Eh...

the Demon being what it is, I have my doubts Lara could be redeemed without booting the Hunger. In which case she might live a good few years, but she'd need some supernatural boost to be 300+.
Something like becoming the next Winter Queen after Mab? The Knight is to some extent consort of the Queens of Faerie, too, which a wedding would fit quite adequately.

I have my own doubts about Lara being redeemed. It would take either a change in the nature of her personal Demon, say to feeding off Love rather than Lust and thus weakening the urge to kill. Or Harry could get a further power-up to say the level of a Forest Person where a feeding wouldn't be fatal. I'm just speculating though. Most likely Jim will keep Lara and Harry to a once twice per book interaction even if the wedding goes through and is consummated.

[g33k]

... Something like becoming the next Winter Queen after Mab? The Knight is to some extent consort of the Queens of Faerie, too, which a wedding would fit quite adequately.

This is a very-interesting notion.

I don't think Jim's going to write it this way; but it's very interesting!

The pieces hang together well-enough for me to now think it's likely that "replace Lara's Hunger-Demon with a Wintermantle" may very-well be part of Mab's planning (if only 2nd or 3rd tier contingency).

I've intentionally not specified the Queen-Mantle... Lara of course hardly qualifies as "virginal" but maybe the magic can admit of a "from now on" definition.  It'd be incredibly-ironic for "Queen of the Sex Vampires" to become mythically-virginal!      And we know (from the disastrous Carlos/Molly event) that Jim's very willing to torment other characters than Harry, with this sort of thing.  And it'd give Molly an "out" from the Ladymantle, if Harry could find a way to initiate the transfer without killing the current owner...

Or, just do the "normal" Queen dies + Lady-becomes-Queen + Ladymantle-needs-host sequence, with the Winterknight's fiance close to hand.  Ratchet the Molly/Harry tension another notch, I'm sure Jim would like it for that if nothing else.

Or just some direct Lara-gets-Queenmantle path.  That might eliminate the "marriage" elements, though, if there's any incompatibilities between the mythic Winterlaw ideal of "marriage" and the Queen/Knight relationship.  I think Jim's more-likely to write the complex one that loops-in Molly, ratchets-up tension, and tweaks Lara's twerk.

So, lots of elements come together very nicely indeed!  I like your theory a lot, @Avernite!
 

[Snark Knight]

   There still is the issue of "true love" to get around.  Was what Harry and Murphy had true love?  And if is was, is Harry still protected?

He accidentally burned Lara when they brushed into skin contact while busting Thomas out of the cell.  It definitely was true love.  (Also, despite a distractingly painful burn, Lara figures out right away it must have been Karrin and seems genuinely approving for them to have found a healthy relationship.  First time through, it reads like irony that the monster understands and reacts much more positively than Harry's supposed friends. Second reading ... yeah, I feel a bit dumb for not seeing that for the foreshadowing it was).

Uncertain if that protection survived Karrin's death, but I tend to think it would for as long as he's heavily occupied by mourning.

[Avernite]

This is a very-interesting notion.

I don't think Jim's going to write it this way; but it's very interesting!

The pieces hang together well-enough for me to now think it's likely that "replace Lara's Hunger-Demon with a Wintermantle" may very-well be part of Mab's planning (if only 2nd or 3rd tier contingency).

I've intentionally not specified the Queen-Mantle... Lara of course hardly qualifies as "virginal" but maybe the magic can admit of a "from now on" definition.  It'd be incredibly-ironic for "Queen of the Sex Vampires" to become mythically-virginal!      And we know (from the disastrous Carlos/Molly event) that Jim's very willing to torment other characters than Harry, with this sort of thing.  And it'd give Molly an "out" from the Ladymantle, if Harry could find a way to initiate the transfer without killing the current owner...

Or, just do the "normal" Queen dies + Lady-becomes-Queen + Ladymantle-needs-host sequence, with the Winterknight's fiance close to hand.  Ratchet the Molly/Harry tension another notch, I'm sure Jim would like it for that if nothing else.

Or just some direct Lara-gets-Queenmantle path.  That might eliminate the "marriage" elements, though, if there's any incompatibilities between the mythic Winterlaw ideal of "marriage" and the Queen/Knight relationship.  I think Jim's more-likely to write the complex one that loops-in Molly, ratchets-up tension, and tweaks Lara's twerk.

So, lots of elements come together very nicely indeed!  I like your theory a lot, @Avernite!

Thank you

For further 'support', I find Lara and Mab mostly have fairly similar outlooks. Low sentimentality except some 'defend our own', ruthless to the core, winner in a court of violent backstabbers... And both surprisingly good at understanding Harry Dresden (even if it feels for Mab it's partly 'characterization marches on' - she seemed much more alien in the early books).

[Dina]

Thank you

For further 'support', I find Lara and Mab mostly have fairly similar outlooks. Low sentimentality except some 'defend our own', ruthless to the core, winner in a court of violent backstabbers... And both surprisingly good at understanding Harry Dresden (even if it feels for Mab it's partly 'characterization marches on' - she seemed much more alien in the early books).

Agree about Mab's characterization. She was also much more cruel in Summer Knight. I think Jim decided to change his alignment from legal evil to legal neutral.

About Lara, I see her more as a Knight material than a Queen. She will be formidable at that.

[Snark Knight]

Agree about Mab's characterization. She was also much more cruel in Summer Knight. I think Jim decided to change his alignment from legal evil to legal neutral.

Nearly freezing Harry's eyeballs in SmF was pretty cruel too.

I'm not sure if her characterization change was organically done on the fly, or a planned shift based on how the narrator is also changing.

[KurtinStGeorge]

   There still is the issue of "true love" to get around.

Someone else already pointed out that Lara got burned when Harry touched her during the Thomas rescue mission, so I can dispense with that.  What you seem to have missed is an answer that you came up with in an earlier post. 

The one where you pointed out that Harry was good at manipulating others. I will add, even when Harry is consciously trying to manipulate another, he doesn’t necessarily have an end game or specific goal in mind.  Also, there are times when Harry influences others, without intending or realizing he is doing so.

In Blood Rites, Harry overtly manipulated Lara into taking out Lord Raith by telling her he could hand her control of House Raith and show her just how weak her father really was.  Harry wasn’t lying, but he implied that he would overthrow Lord Raith himself, not that he would only weaken him so Lara could finish the job.  Harry had a specific goal he wanted, and that needed, to attain with this manipulation.

When Harry told Lash that she had changed and might have a life outside of returning to Lashiel, it wasn’t part of a plan to make her turn against Lashiel at a critical moment.  Harry was mostly trying to fight back against Lash manipulating him.  He was trying to keep Lash off of her game and it only morphed into a plan when Harry was out of other options.

Mab believed that Harry manipulated Molly into becoming his loyal vassal, when Harry was completely unaware that Molly was a magic user.  Harry influenced Molly without realizing the effect he was having on her.

So, influence and possibly some manipulation without an end game in mind.  Where might that lead?  True love.  Harry can’t plan on that happening.  It is simply too remote and crazy to have that as a goal; plus, you can’t will yourself to love someone else. 

Speaking of will, it seems to me that Harry is almost always in a contest of wills with Lara.  That does requires some degree of manipulation on Harry’s part; largely for survival, but if Harry might be afraid of being in Lara’s company; being influenced by her, losing himself, I wonder if Lara might have her own worries about Harry.  Even some fears Lara might not admit to herself.  Lara might be compared to a tiger, but Harry is the guy who makes tiger traps.   

Let me put this in simpler terms.  Harry and Lara will be in each other’s company for a fair amount of time over the next year.  They are already attracted to each other.  There will be a lot of back and forth between the two.  It seems a good bet that one hostile party or another might take a shot at removing Harry, Lara or both of them.  That could be a perfect opportunity for both of them to be willing to lay down their life for one another.  I don’t think Jim is going to do this, but it could happen.

Imagine how much fun this scenario could lead to.  The marriage couldn’t be consummated.  Harry would be frustrated, as usual.  Lara would be terrified that she would look weak and be overthrown; and she would probably be correct, if it the rest of the White Court found out that she was in love with Harry, with her prey.  Mab would wonder why Harry wasn’t becoming more pliable.  Ebenezer and the rest of the White Council would now be certain that Harry was under control of the White Court.  Yes, I know Justine found away around this, but do you think Harry would suggest it?     

[vincentric]

Lara knows how Thomas fed himself before Justine's "solution" in GS and since her security people had Thomas' apartment under constant surveillance, she would know about the solution. She'd know that 3rd parties are safe to feed from and is too practical to starve and weaken herself even if that would mean being unfaithful to Harry.

[Dina]

kurtin, I am surprised you did not mention Harry's worst manipulation, making Susan feed from Martin.

I think Harry will fight with all that he has to protect his protection  . For Murphy first and for himself later.

[Mira]

Imagine how much fun this scenario could lead to.  The marriage couldn’t be consummated.  Harry would be frustrated, as usual.  Lara would be terrified that she would look weak and be overthrown; and she would probably be correct, if it the rest of the White Court found out that she was in love with Harry, with her prey.  Mab would wonder why Harry wasn’t becoming more pliable.  Ebenezer and the rest of the White Council would now be certain that Harry was under control of the White Court.  Yes, I know Justine found away around this, but do you think Harry would suggest it?     

Actually I don't think it will be that much fun, more like a variation on the same old tune, or maybe one too many sequels to the same movie. 

Lara knows how Thomas fed himself before Justine's "solution" in GS and since her security people had Thomas' apartment under constant surveillance, she would know about the solution. She'd know that 3rd parties are safe to feed from and is too practical to starve and weaken herself even if that would mean being unfaithful to Harry.

Yup, and so do we.

The one where you pointed out that Harry was good at manipulating others. I will add, even when Harry is consciously trying to manipulate another, he doesn’t necessarily have an end game or specific goal in mind.  Also, there are times when Harry influences others, without intending or realizing he is doing so.

I disagree, Harry usually does have a goal, to survive.  At this point he has no agenda, why?  Because at this point Harry doesn't have a clue as to what he is or who he is.  Yeah, he knows a few things, he isn't totally clueless, but he doesn't know enough to have a game plan yet for an ultimate goal.

[g33k]

Also, I keep forgetting to answer the titular question, every time I come into this thread.
I keep getting side-tracked by all y'all's interesting ideas!

So, for the record:

Where do you go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires?

Are you @*%$!^ crazy???

I do not go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires!

[Dina]

Also, I keep forgetting to answer the titular question, every time I come into this thread.
I keep getting side-tracked by all y'all's interesting ideas!

So, for the record:
Are you @*%$!^ crazy???

I do not go out on a date with the Queen of the sex vampires!

 
You are right, of course. But Harry has no option.

[g33k]

You are right, of course. But Harry has no option. 

Yes, well.

You don't see me bargaining with Faerie Queens, either, do you?
 


Harry's great secret -- not to be revealed until the last book of the BAT -- is that his True Name actually has five parts, not four:

Harry Copperfield _Deathwish Blackstone Dresden

[Dina]

 
You are so right.