Did Mab fake out Harry... again?

[g33k]

(and, btw, Jim fake out his readers!)

As we all infamously know, Mab ordered Harry -- if Mab should die -- to kill Molly.  Prompted by other recent threads, I've come up with an unexpected new WAG...

Ostensibly, Harry should kill Molly because she "isn't ready" for the Queenmantle, for unspecified reasons and with unspecified ramifications.

But here's the thing:  Mab's a master-manipulator; she gets people to do what she wants, but only sometimes is that with overt orders.

My WAG then:

Mab realizes that Harry killing Molly is a really, really low-likelihood event; improbable in the extreme!

Therefore, that's not the outcome she's pursuing; that's not the intent behind the order.

What, then?  Brace yourselves...

This is Mab being genuinely kind!

No, really!
Shocking, innit?

See, Mab is genuinely worried about the pressures on an unprepared and suddenly-elevated Queen Molly.  So, she conveys to Harry -- in the strongest language possible -- that this is a HUGE issue.

We know Harry.  We know he isn't gonna kill Molly.
What will he do?

Most likely, rally to her side and support her, offer advice & counsel, be a friend, etc.

Exactly the things new Queen Molly would need to stabilize her psyche while she adjusts to the powerful new Queenmantle.

And that was Mab's plan, when she ordered Harry to kill Molly.
"Kill Molly" was Mab-speak for "Be a friend to her."   

[Mira]

  But Harry would rally to Molly's side in any case.. Mab knows this, there is or was no need to play such games with him. 

[g33k]

  But Harry would rally to Molly's side in any case.. Mab knows this, there is or was no need to play such games with him.

He would... if he understands the need; if he grasped how much harder the Queenmantle is than the Ladymantle.  But with a sufficiently-urgent and sufficiently-critical and sufficiently-large To-Do list -- such as he might have, for example, if someone had just taken out Queen Mab -- he might not prioritize getting to Molly quite as quickly.

[LordDresden2]

(and, btw, Jim fake out his readers!)

As we all infamously know, Mab ordered Harry -- if Mab should die -- to kill Molly.  Prompted by other recent threads, I've come up with an unexpected new WAG...

Ostensibly, Harry should kill Molly because she "isn't ready" for the Queenmantle, for unspecified reasons and with unspecified ramifications.

But here's the thing:  Mab's a master-manipulator; she gets people to do what she wants, but only sometimes is that with overt orders.

My WAG then:

Mab realizes that Harry killing Molly is a really, really low-likelihood event; improbable in the extreme!

Therefore, that's not the outcome she's pursuing; that's not the intent behind the order.

What, then?  Brace yourselves...

This is Mab being genuinely kind!

No, really!
Shocking, innit?

See, Mab is genuinely worried about the pressures on an unprepared and suddenly-elevated Queen Molly.  So, she conveys to Harry -- in the strongest language possible -- that this is a HUGE issue.

We know Harry.  We know he isn't gonna kill Molly.
What will he do?

Most likely, rally to her side and support her, offer advice & counsel, be a friend, etc.

Exactly the things new Queen Molly would need to stabilize her psyche while she adjusts to the powerful new Queenmantle.

And that was Mab's plan, when she ordered Harry to kill Molly.
"Kill Molly" was Mab-speak for "Be a friend to her."   

Hmm...could be.  Like your hypothesis that Carlos was faking his 'turning' on Harry, I'll call it 'plausible but unproven' as the Mythbusters would say.

[g33k]

... I'll call it 'plausible but unproven' as the Mythbusters would say.

Oh, for sure!
Nature of the WAGish beast, eh?

[Mira]

He would... if he understands the need; if he grasped how much harder the Queenmantle is than the Ladymantle.  But with a sufficiently-urgent and sufficiently-critical and sufficiently-large To-Do list -- such as he might have, for example, if someone had just taken out Queen Mab -- he might not prioritize getting to Molly quite as quickly.

Um, since Harry has been battling a mantle of his own for a while here, I think he'd get it pretty quick. Also he has "personal" connections to Molly sans the mantle, so no, I doubt that aiding Molly wouldn't be on his priority list.

[Tinfoil hat]

(and, btw, Jim fake out his readers!)

As we all infamously know, Mab ordered Harry -- if Mab should die -- to kill Molly.  Prompted by other recent threads, I've come up with an unexpected new WAG...

Ostensibly, Harry should kill Molly because she "isn't ready" for the Queenmantle, for unspecified reasons and with unspecified ramifications.

But here's the thing:  Mab's a master-manipulator; she gets people to do what she wants, but only sometimes is that with overt orders.

My WAG then:

Mab realizes that Harry killing Molly is a really, really low-likelihood event; improbable in the extreme!

Therefore, that's not the outcome she's pursuing; that's not the intent behind the order.

What, then?  Brace yourselves...

This is Mab being genuinely kind!

No, really!
Shocking, innit?

See, Mab is genuinely worried about the pressures on an unprepared and suddenly-elevated Queen Molly.  So, she conveys to Harry -- in the strongest language possible -- that this is a HUGE issue.

We know Harry.  We know he isn't gonna kill Molly.
What will he do?

Most likely, rally to her side and support her, offer advice & counsel, be a friend, etc.

Exactly the things new Queen Molly would need to stabilize her psyche while she adjusts to the powerful new Queenmantle.

And that was Mab's plan, when she ordered Harry to kill Molly.
"Kill Molly" was Mab-speak for "Be a friend to her."   

Its a great way to get Harry to do want she wants. Harry disobeys orders just because on a good day. Mab telling him to look after Molly would be met with resistance but this way.
Besides Harry is an idiot he may not realize that Molly is in need of immediate help. But the order requires Harry to check in on her regularly to make sure she still sane so he doesn't need to kill her.
And

[Mira]

Its a great way to get Harry to do want she wants. Harry disobeys orders just because on a good day. Mab telling him to look after Molly would be met with resistance but this way.
Besides Harry is an idiot he may not realize that Molly is in need of immediate help. But the order requires Harry to check in on her regularly to make sure she still sane so he doesn't need to kill her.
And

In a word? Bull....

[Dina]

I do not remember Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly. Did she explicitly said that? In my mind she adviced Harry to do so.
This is super relevant because Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly would break the deal that made Harry the WK.

[Mira]

I do not remember Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly. Did she explicitly said that? In my mind she adviced Harry to do so.
This is super relevant because Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly would break the deal that made Harry the WK.

Exactly

[g33k]

I do not remember Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly. Did she explicitly said that? In my mind she adviced Harry to do so.
This is super relevant because Mab ordering Harry to kill Molly would break the deal that made Harry the WK.

You are correct of course...
I was careless in my OP wording!
(clearly, I'm unsuited to bargain with fae...)   
(then again... realistically, so are we all)

[g33k]

Um, since Harry has been battling a mantle of his own for a while here, I think he'd get it pretty quick. Also he has "personal" connections to Molly sans the mantle, so no, I doubt that aiding Molly wouldn't be on his priority list.

Harry has been doing OK... well, OK-ish ... with his Mantle.
Vented a bit, to Murphy, but no real emotional-support network in his life.
Mostly holding his own... not given in to the Hot Fae Chicks that Mab has been dangling in front of him, no rapes, no murders, no major slides toward monstrousness.

Why would Molly need more?

Molly... from Harry's point of view, Molly has probably been thriving under the Ladymantle.  Keeping her sense of "self," more-or-less.  Got really happy to visit the 'rents, the way an alienated Winter Lady would not.
 
And Mr. Dresden is notoriously thick, when it comes to introspective / emotional issues.

[LordDresden2]

Harry has been doing OK... well, OK-ish ... with his Mantle.
Vented a bit, to Murphy, but no real emotional-support network in his life.
Mostly holding his own... not given in to the Hot Fae Chicks that Mab has been dangling in front of him, no rapes, no murders, no major slides toward monstrousness.

He's not gone full Lloyd Slate, no.  We still don't know how good or bad a person Lloyd was before he became Winter Knight, so it's kind of hard to judge how much of that was the mantle and how much was Lloyd being Lloyd.

But he did kill a sapient being pretty casually to make a point in Cold Days (at the grand ball).  Granted, that's the Winter way...but still...

[Dina]

You are correct of course...
I was careless in my OP wording!
(clearly, I'm unsuited to bargain with fae...)   
(then again... realistically, so are we all)

I actually think I may be...passable. At least, in my language. In English, perhaps not so much because I could miss a lot of nuances. But, for example, I've roleplayed here in the forums for years and I was careful not to allow my character a single lie (unless not a conscious one) but sometimes my character managed to hide things or even deceive people. Granted, it helped that my character was genuinely good, she always had a good reason for doing the hiding or deception. And when other people knows they are talking to a good people, they usually trust them. But still, it was a good practice.  Other times I also roleplayed (in real life sessions) characters whe were legal, many times to the point not to lie. So I have some practice with wording. I do not know if it would be enough to deal with a fae in major things but I believe I could have some casual words without ending as a slave or something 

[Mira]

He's not gone full Lloyd Slate, no.  We still don't know how good or bad a person Lloyd was before he became Winter Knight, so it's kind of hard to judge how much of that was the mantle and how much was Lloyd being Lloyd.

But he did kill a sapient being pretty casually to make a point in Cold Days (at the grand ball).  Granted, that's the Winter way...but still...

The only thing I remember being said about Slate before he was Winter Knight was he was a drug addict.  I also seem to remember that Maeve picked him, not Mab.  Then it gets vague, at one point I believe Harry refers to Slate having a criminal past, which could be related to his addiction, but I also seem to recall Harry saying that Slate wasn't always a bad man before he became Knight.  In short, Slate was a very weak candidate to begin with, and in the end fell victim to the addictive nature that the power boost of the mantle brings.  Which from Maeve's twisted view point was just what she wanted, she liked having a Knight who got off on raping etc ya ya's that the mantle brought him.