True Love as Defense against White Court Vampires

[SerScot]

I’m re-reading Side Jobs and recently finished the Thomas Novella “Backup”.  In it Thomas mentions that “True Love” is a defense against all Wamps.  Then we have the short story “Love Hurts” where a Ramp is helping brew up a potion that helps facilitate “True Love” in mortals to make it more difficult for Wamps to feed. 

Here’s my problem.  This makes sense as a defense to Raith style Wamps who feed on lust which is a twisting of love.  Why would it work on Skavis and Malvora types?  Should genuine deeply felt “hope” defeat a Skavis’ desire to feed on Despair and genuine deeply held “faith” (in something) work to defeat a Malvora’s feeding on fear? 

Clearly the three methods of Wamp feeding fear, despair, and lust were conceived as being oppositional to the three virtues of faith, hope, and love.  Why would “true love” defeat all wamps?

[Mira]

I’m re-reading Side Jobs and recently finished the Thomas Novella “Backup”.  In it Thomas mentions that “True Love” is a defense against all Wamps.  Then we have the short story “Love Hurts” where a Ramp is helping brew up a potion that helps facilitate “True Love” in mortals to make it more difficult for Wamps to feed. 

Here’s my problem.  This makes sense as a defense to Raith style Wamps who feed on lust which is a twisting of love.  Why would it work on Skavis and Malvora types?  Should genuine deeply felt “hope” defeat a Skavis’ desire to feed on Despair and genuine deeply held “faith” (in something) work to defeat a Malvora’s feeding on fear? 

Clearly the three methods of Wamp feeding fear, despair, and lust were conceived as being oppositional to the three virtues of faith, hope, and love.  Why would “true love” defeat all wamps?

Well, there is the saying that "love conquers all.."  However if I remember correctly, but admittedly it is late and my brain if fuzzy and I don't want to dig through White Night right now, but true love didn't seem to protect Harry against Malvora, but it did later against Lara.  So if I did get that right, true love doesn't protect against all vamps.

[g33k]

...  In it Thomas mentions that “True Love” is a defense against all Wamps.  Then we have the short story “Love Hurts” where a Ramp is helping brew up a potion that helps facilitate “True Love” in mortals to make it more difficult for Wamps to feed. 

Here’s my problem.  This makes sense as a defense to Raith style Wamps who feed on lust which is a twisting of love.  Why would it work on Skavis and Malvora types?  Should genuine deeply felt “hope” defeat a Skavis’ desire to feed on Despair and genuine deeply held “faith” (in something) work to defeat a Malvora’s feeding on fear? 

Clearly the three methods of Wamp feeding fear, despair, and lust were conceived as being oppositional to the three virtues of faith, hope, and love.  Why would “true love” defeat all wamps?

I think it's two things -- #1, the Raith/Lust whampire is I think the overwhelmingly-most-common sort, & #2, a version of "unreliable narrator" where someone says "all" as a lazy version of "most" or as hyperbole or as a subtle dig at the others being in a "too small gory.to matter" category.

[LordDresden2]

JB hasn't really given us enough data to say how it works with Malvora and Skavis.  We have hints, but nothing definite, and some of what he's said seems a bit contradictory.

IIRC, he also once said that in theory, a WV could feed through the warm and fuzzy feeling you get when petting a kitten...but then he added that a WV that did that would probably sparkle.  :lol:  So I'm not sure how serious he was.

[g33k]

JB hasn't really given us enough data to say how it works with Malvora and Skavis.  We have hints, but nothing definite, and some of what he's said seems a bit contradictory...

:-)
"Well ack-chew-ly..."

Q:“You’ve said that True Love (real True Love) only protects against WCVamps feeding on lust. What protects against the other WCVamps?”
A: It isn’t real complicated that way. The vamps who feed on fear get bad effects from real courage. Those who feed on despair choke on hope.

^{-- ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/ )}

[Mira]

:-)
"Well ack-chew-ly..."^{-- ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/ )}

So it isn't one emotion fits all...  To put it loosely as the Mikado sang in the famous operetta, "let the emotion fit the meal, the emotion fit the meal.....

[peterwiggin94]

In defense of the OP, I suspect that honest-to-goodness deep love would inspire courage, hope, faith, and anything else that Malvora and Skavis would hate. It may not instantly cause them to be burned like a Raith but, since we know the White Court like weak prey, I bet it would cause them to not target people in a solid relationship. Maybe it's just my sappy side talking but I like to believe that real love inspires courage and hope. 

[Tinfoil hat]

In defense of the OP, I suspect that honest-to-goodness deep love would inspire courage, hope, faith, and anything else that Malvora and Skavis would hate. It may not instantly cause them to be burned like a Raith but, since we know the White Court like weak prey, I bet it would cause them to not target people in a solid relationship. Maybe it's just my sappy side talking but I like to believe that real love inspires courage and hope. 

It may be that true love weaks them but not to the extent that it affects Raith. Think gun shot to leg vs the stomach or chest

[Mira]

It may be that true love weaks them but not to the extent that it affects Raith. Think gun shot to leg vs the stomach or chest

Not sure about that either, if it would work I think Thomas or Lara would have done it by now...

[peterwiggin94]

There's a slight but important nuance here. I don't think true love hurts Skavis or Malvora but leads to or inspires things that do.

[Mira]

There's a slight but important nuance here. I don't think true love hurts Skavis or Malvora but leads to or inspires things that do.

Yes, but that isn't going to save someone who is in their clutches unless they are feeling those emotions in the moment they are being attacked. 

[LordDresden2]

:-)
"Well ack-chew-ly..."^{-- ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/ )}

Yeah, but that doesn't tell us anything about how it works in practice.  We know that if two people who genuinely love each other are sexually intimate, they can shield each other from subsequent Raith attacks until there is unloving sex.  JB has said there other ways that can work, but we've never seen it or been told about what they are.

But what's the equivalent with courage and/or hope?

Yes, but that isn't going to save someone who is in their clutches unless they are feeling those emotions in the moment they are being attacked.

That's a thing right there, though.  We don't know the 'mechanism' by which courage would mess with Malvora or hope with Skavis.  We've seen the protective mechanism at work with love and Raith, but how would it work with the others?  We just don't know.

Would you have to be feeling the emotion/state at the time of the attack?  If so, then there wouldn't be any lasting protection afterward, unlike the love/sex protection.  Does it mean that someone who feels/displays those emotions on a regular basis builds up a protection?  We just don't know, and JB hasn't told us enough to do more than make WAGs.

[Dina]

I was going to post the WoJ that g33k quoted, so it seems True Love does not protect against all vampires. But there is something about Love. As others said, it seems that Love is above everything else, and someone who feels True Love probably becomes True Brave and True Hopeful and even True Faithful (True Faith is something that works against Rampires). I am probably being a tad cheesy, but I think that is what Thomas had in mind. Thomas is a romantic (literally, since his birth) and he probably is the most in awe of Love that anyone in the DF.

[SerScot]

:-)
"Well ack-chew-ly..."^{-- ( https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-vampires/ )}

So… just as I thought.

[Dina]

A golden star for you