Author Topic: Twelve Months stuck?  (Read 11608 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2024, 11:41:39 AM »
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Minor difference of opinion here, but I don’t think it was Charity not seeing the signs that her daughter was developing magical talent as much as it was Charity not wanting to believe that her daughter would develop the talent combined with Molly keeping the secret to herself.

Yes, but also not leveling with Harry up front from the beginning of her husband's friendship with him,  of her own background.  Instead she treated Harry as if he were a corrupting influence on her children.  I think it was out of ignorance, fear, and misplaced thinking that magical talent is somehow evil in of itself that guided her.  As forbidden fruit,  Harry's talent and exploits became even more attractive to Molly, for many of the wrong reasons..
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 05:25:03 PM by Mira »

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2024, 07:38:40 PM »
You beat me. This feels much closer to 100% than before, lol.
Specifically, it feels 10% closer.

/snark (*)



(*) -- ahhh, who th'hell am I kidding?  You'll stop my snark when you pull the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers...

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2024, 08:08:19 PM »
(*) -- ahhh, who th'hell am I kidding?  You'll stop my snark when you pull the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers...

Gnarly old fingers clutching the ancient keyboard, refusing to let go. With one last effort the trembling index finger hits "post".
One last snark leaves the cozy run down home to find its place in the void of the world wide web.
One last breath escapes, almost like a content sigh.
Gone is the snark.
Gone are the typing noises.
No more.
Nothing left.
Silence.

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2024, 08:49:57 PM »
Yes, but also not leveling with Harry up front from the beginning of her husband's friendship with him,  of her own background.  Instead she treated Harry as if he were a corrupting influence on her children.  I think it was out of ignorance, fear, and misplaced thinking that magical talent is somehow evil in of itself that guided her.  As forbidden fruit,  Harry's talent and exploits became even more attractive to Molly, for many of the wrong reasons..

I think you're more or less correct, but you seem to be judging Charity's all-too-human failings quite harshly.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
As Harry notes, modern scholarship puts gives us a *MUCH* more nuanced understanding of this verse.
But from what we understand of Charity's upbringing... that's probably how she felt about the matter.

Her background with magic was something she was ashamed of.  She never really took any time to really think about it, come to a deeper understanding.  She felt a reflexive dread, and shied away from addressing the issue, doing the emotional work that her own background would have required, if she were to address the issue rationally.

And, just as a practical matter:  as Charity noted, most of Michael's serious injuries came from the few occasions he worked with Harry.  How could she see Harry (and "wizardly" pursuits) in anything other than a horrible light?

Offline g33k

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2024, 08:57:04 PM »
I think Molly was doing everything she could to hide her talent from Charity.  Seeing as she described to Harry (in Proven Guilty) that she pulled up a vail on her own without previous instruction must have made it much easier to keep her talent hidden.

Minor difference of opinion here, but I don’t think it was Charity not seeing the signs that her daughter was developing magical talent as much as it was Charity not wanting to believe that her daughter would develop the talent combined with Molly keeping the secret to herself ... 

Speaking as a parent:   one becomes very adept at spotting your kids' BS.
Not perfect -- never 100% perfect -- but IME kids fool their parents less than they think they do.

I think it was both, and in roughly equal measure:  Molly working really hard to hide it, and Charity not wanting to face it.  Molly provided just enough "plausible deniability" that Charity could convince herself "nothing magical" was happening... despite the fact that Charity herself had a background of being a tween/teen becoming magical under parental disapproval, i.e. personal experience of exactly what Molly was going through.
 

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2024, 11:32:42 AM »
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I think you're more or less correct, but you seem to be judging Charity's all-too-human failings quite harshly.]

No, not judging them, actually also as a parent understanding them.. You can state facts without judging them, Charity had a choice and Molly has to live with the consequences of that choice.. If she had chosen to be more open with her past to Harry and Molly, it may not have changed anything.. Molly still had to make her own choices.. That's the hell of all of this.  It's like the old debate about sex education in schools, there are those who think if the kids learn about their bodies and sex, they will go out, have it, and any kind is bad... And those who think if they are educated about it, they still might have sex, but be responsible.. Or not..  Truth, teenagers and preteens have changing bodies that harbor awakening sexual hormones and impulses, no matter if they are educated before hand or not.. Preventing that education isn't going to stop those hormones, and educating them isn't going insure they will make wise choices about them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 01:59:38 PM by Mira »

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2024, 09:43:39 PM »
I think you're more or less correct, but you seem to be judging Charity's all-too-human failings quite harshly.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
As Harry notes, modern scholarship puts gives us a *MUCH* more nuanced understanding of this verse.
But from what we understand of Charity's upbringing... that's probably how she felt about the matter.

Her background with magic was something she was ashamed of.  She never really took any time to really think about it, come to a deeper understanding.  She felt a reflexive dread, and shied away from addressing the issue, doing the emotional work that her own background would have required, if she were to address the issue rationally.


The overall Scriptural view of magic is still negative, including the New Testament.

Charity is not just ashamed of magic, she's afraid of it  And with very good reason.  She nearly came to disaster because of her own fairly minor Talent, and only Michael prevented it.  Or to put it another way, Charity was rescued by Divine intervention.

Magical talent is dangerous in the DV.  It can be useful, but it also makes you a target, in several different ways.  Magic users are more tasty and tempting to White Vampires.  They are useful pawns and tools for bad actors like Victor Sells (or Charity guru).  Their interests take them to the very places where monsters are likely to show up.

(You're more likely to run into a White Vampire by chance at Mac's than you are at the local McDonald's.  You've got a higher chance of meeting up with a bad-intentioned player at Bock's than at Barnes and Noble.  Etc.)

Plus, of course, the risk that one could inadvertently violate one of the Seven Laws and then the relative good guys will hunt you down and behead you.

I realized a long time ago that for a person possessed of a fairly minor Talent in the DV, Charity is basically right.  Your best bet is to turn away from it.  It'll almost surely bring you more Trouble than benefit to pursue it.

If you have a somewhat stronger Talent, and if you have a trustworthy mentor or teacher, the equation changes.  The benefits might outweigh the costs then.  But finding such a mentor is no easy thing, and there are many, many ways for it to Go Wrong.

This is an example I've cited before, but it's relevant:  imagine you're a modest-or-stronger Talent trying to figure out how to use your powers.  You discover two textbooks in the magic shops:  Elementary Magic by E. McCoy, and Basic Magic by E. Relmmek.

Both purport to be introductory textbooks for magical theory and practice.  Both are full of useful information, exercises, and examples.  Both have the necessary information to let you increase your skills and learn to use your Talent.

How are you supposed to know that you can trust McCoy, but that you should burn the Relmmek textbook in the hottest fire available, while handling it with gloves?

Charity's attitude is 95% reasonable and well-founded.  Molly fell through the cracks of the other 5%, but that's not to say that Charity is wrong, because she's mostly right for most people most of the time.


Offline Dina

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2024, 10:25:18 PM »
I agree, all what you say is true. It is perfectly reasonable, but Mira is also right in that it has consequences in Molly's life.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2024, 04:38:51 AM »
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Charity's attitude is 95% reasonable and well-founded.  Molly fell through the cracks of the other 5%, but that's not to say that Charity is wrong, because she's mostly right for most people most of the time.

  In her daughter's case she made a serious mistake, and sadly as often happens her intentions were good.  Out of her own fear and ignorance, she thought she was protecting her child from what was nearly her own fate.  I say ignorance because when the dragon had gotten a hold of her, she had magical talent, but no understanding of it. 

Offline magnuskn

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2024, 02:23:48 PM »
Last update from Jim, from an interview he did 11 days ago with the Beyond the Cape podcast, he hopes to be done with Twelve Months by the time DragonCon comes around, to announce there the book is finished. We'll see, I guess. ^^

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2024, 03:33:25 PM »
Last update from Jim, from an interview he did 11 days ago with the Beyond the Cape podcast, he hopes to be done with Twelve Months by the time DragonCon comes around, to announce there the book is finished. We'll see, I guess. ^^

When is that?

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2024, 04:51:30 PM »
When is that?
Aug. 29 – Sep. 2, 2024 in Atlanta, GA

Ambitious, considering the progress bar is only at 64%. But he has been known to miscalculate estimates before, so I take that with a big grain of salt.

Offline Dina

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2024, 05:09:59 PM »
Perhaps the person writing the updates in the site is doing their own estimation based on what Jim tells them, and it is probably delayed with respect to the truth. In any case, perhaps Jim intends to finish a draft for the Dragon Con and then do an exhaustive revision, including perhaps things that were not truly finished before. Anyways, those are good news, mainly because they showed that Jim is focused in his writing.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2024, 05:51:04 PM »

I have learned over the years no to hold my breath on such matters... ::)  On the other hand, we have been a most patient set of fans, happy for any crumb that is thrown our way...  Maybe just maybe he appreciates that, thus not making us wait for years for the next book in the series..

Offline magnuskn

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Re: Twelve Months stuck?
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2024, 10:18:01 AM »
I have learned over the years no to hold my breath on such matters... ::)  On the other hand, we have been a most patient set of fans, happy for any crumb that is thrown our way...  Maybe just maybe he appreciates that, thus not making us wait for years for the next book in the series..

I think the GRRM fans have us beat in terms of patience. ^^