Carlos and Chandler's mentors

[Tinfoil hat]

Been thinking given their rapid rise in rank and the fact that they seem to be trusted by the Establishment. Who are Carlos and Chandler's mentors.
Is there any Woj about them?
Cause i think there is so much there!.

Chandler is a wizard Luccio trusts above most. Carlos is Carlos and holds any important position at a young age.

[EBRIEN]

Not sure about WoJ. My gut still says Chandler is a bad guy and that Drakul didn't send him to a bad place. I mean, really. Why waste a wizard level talent by sending them to nothingness when you could turn him into a Blampire?

I bet if we actually find out who his mentor was, it'll track back to someone who will be revealed to be black council. 

[g33k]

...  given their rapid rise in rank and the fact that they seem to be trusted by the Establishment ...

I don't think Chandler was all that young, or that we know he had any "rapid rise in rank."  I got much more of a sense that he was long-established as a warden (and rather older than Dresden), by the time we first meet him.  Of course, this would just put him into the "50-250" range of wizardly "almost unaging," so we can't really be at all sure.

... Who are Carlos and Chandler's mentors.
Is there any Woj about them?

I think it might be interesting to know the mentorship of many of the WC wizards, in general (and the Senior Council in particular (I speculate (based on not very much of anything) that Langtry & McCoy may have had the same master)).

Other than:
 - DuMorne with Harry & Elaine
 - McCoy with Maggie & Harry
 - Dresden himself with Molly
 - I don't think there's a named "master" but Carlos was IIRC a brown-robe in an early DF novel
I don't recall any master/prentice relationships that have been specified in the canonical stories...?

IIRC there is some WoJ that Chandler's magical specialty is something with info/divination/etc: he's a magical "intelligence analyst" for the Wardens, rather than a combat heavy-hitter as most field operatives that we see.

[Tinfoil hat]

I think it was Summer knights. He laughed at Harry's bad latin ( stupid correspondence lessons)

[Mira]

I don't think Chandler was all that young, or that we know he had any "rapid rise in rank."  I got much more of a sense that he was long-established as a warden (and rather older than Dresden), by the time we first meet him.  Of course, this would just put him into the "50-250" range of wizardly "almost unaging," so we can't really be at all sure.

  I don't think Chandler is that much older than Harry, but I agree he is older, perhaps fifty to seventy.  I do think though that he has been a Warden a lot longer than either Harry or Carlos. 

Not sure about WoJ. My gut still says Chandler is a bad guy and that Drakul didn't send him to a bad place. I mean, really. Why waste a wizard level talent by sending them to nothingness when you could turn him into a Blampire?

Odd, I feel the opposite, I predict that in Mirror Mirror Harry will rescue and return with him and the White Council won't trust him because of it. Thus Chandler will also be kicked not only out of the Wardens but the White Council as well.  This will allow him to join Harry and fill the role left vacant by the retirement of Michael, imprisonment of Thomas, and rejection of friendship by Carlos.

[EBRIEN]

 
Odd, I feel the opposite, I predict that in Mirror Mirror Harry will rescue and return with him and the White Council won't trust him because of it. Thus Chandler will also be kicked not only out of the Wardens but the White Council as well.  This will allow him to join Harry and fill the role left vacant by the retirement of Michael, imprisonment of Thomas, and rejection of friendship by Carlos.

I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.

[Mira]

I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.

Great minds think alike!

[Yuillegan]

I like this train of thought. Harry could build a new council of wizards when all is said and done.

Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".

I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and given this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.

Harry may well form another White Council after the inevitable collapse of the current one. But if the White Council collapses around the various apocalypses, is there even much point?

Not only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.

Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.

[Mira]

Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".

I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and give this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.

Not maybe as we have known him, but Harry will survive.  But then again, Jim is now successful enough that if he loses some readers because he kills Harry off it won't hurt him that much.  Also consider, Jim has already "killed" Harry off once and brought him back, and he isn't the same Harry he was before, nor is his world.

t only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.

Yes, young Harry rejected authority in a lot of ways, corrupt authority especially.  I disagree, Harry is no libertarian, not in the classic sense.  Up until they rejected him outright, Harry had a lot of respect for the White Council from just the way he talked about it.  No, he didn't follow all the rules all of the time, but more out of nessesity rather than disregard for them or belief that they didn't have merit.  Go back to his debate with the Merlin in his defense of Molly in Proven Guilty, that wasn't argued by a libertarian, it was argued by a future Merlin wanting the White Council to follow it's own rules.  Carlos maybe still young but he still represents the old guard, Harry is the new.

Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.

Harry didn't leave the White Council, the White Council left him.  I also disagree that Harry likes being an outsider, he cannot afford to be with the BAT coming.  He has to learn to play well with others and become a leader.  This is what makes the series interesting, Harry has to evolve and is evolving, he has had to learn to play nice with some and reject others, watching him grow up is what makes the series compelling.

[g33k]

I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and give this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.

Dresden may indeed die at the end of the BAT; it seems entirely possible, maybe even probable.  But I'll note that the series is also called "The Casefiles of Harry Dresden," so if he moves fully into the "Wizard of Chicago" gig, that'd be the end of the whole PI-oriented casefiles" schtick.

... Harry may well form another White Council after the inevitable collapse of the current one. But if the White Council collapses around the various apocalypses, is there even much point? 

My notion (I think it's one others share) is that Harry leverages the Paranet to build a broader coalition, one not exclusive to "White Council Caliber" talents.  The foundation IMHO would be educational:  "how not to fall afoul of Black Magic ways."  This, above all -- the lack of WC guidance for the proto-wizards who fall (all too easily) into the lures of power -- is the thing where Harry feels most-keenly that the WC is just not doing a good-enough job.  And the Paranet is well-suited (in terms of "feet on the ground" & connections into communities) to spot these cases and intervene before things get to the "call for the Grey Cloaks" stage.

It doesn't even have to wait for the WC to collapse -- it could start right away, using the Paranet to begin educating Paranet-level talents.  And if they occasionally don't report every single "Wizard Caliber" talent up the tree to the White Council...  Well.  That just adds more complication to Harry's life (which after all is Jim's bread&butter (and mortgage)).

... Not only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing ...

As others have said, it's not really anti-authority.  It's anti-bullying, and anti abuse-of-power.

But earned expertise and good judgement -- being an authority, not just having a position of authority -- is something Harry respects, and often yields to.

[The_Sibelis]

My two cents, my headcanon for Harry's future existence revolves the original m,"conjure by it at your own peril." In reciting his full name. But to do so probably foolish unless it's in his shtick.. is he becomes something conjurable.

[vincentric]

My two cents, my headcanon for Harry's future existence revolves the original m,"conjure by it at your own peril." In reciting his full name. But to do so probably foolish unless it's in his shtick.. is he becomes something conjurable.

Now that is a theory worth exploring.

What if at the end of the BAT, Harry becomes a new mantle like an Archmagus that governs or at least regulates magic in the Mortal Realms?

[g33k]

Now that is a theory worth exploring.

What if at the end of the BAT, Harry becomes a new mantle like an Archmagus that governs or at least regulates magic in the Mortal Realms?

That seems more like something the Archive would do; I think the magic-knowledge there (everything ever written down about magic) is probably the most comprehensive in the world; though it's very possible that an Immortal being (like Thorned Namshiel) may know a bunch of stuff that never got written down.

But Harry is too ignorant of magic:  he's got more than a century of serious study before the senior wizards will take his knowledge-level seriously... and he doesn't have time to learn, before the BAT.

[vincentric]

That seems more like something the Archive would do; I think the magic-knowledge there (everything ever written down about magic) is probably the most comprehensive in the world; though it's very possible that an Immortal being (like Thorned Namshiel) may know a bunch of stuff that never got written down.

But Harry is too ignorant of magic:  he's got more than a century of serious study before the senior wizards will take his knowledge-level seriously... and he doesn't have time to learn, before the BAT.

I wasn't thinking of it as a teaching role but more of police function or even a position similar to Mab's but covering magic. Harry would get a limited Intellectus to warn him of major magical threats and events and have the newly formed Wardens as enforcers and the Paranet as the administrative and education arms of his new council/court.

[Mira]

But Harry is too ignorant of magic:  he's got more than a century of serious study before the senior wizards will take his knowledge-level seriously... and he doesn't have time to learn, before the BAT.

My take is a little different, one of the big lessons from Fool Moon is that names have power.  Harry said he couldn't give any more of his names to Chauncy because that would give Chauncy power over him.  In later books he is even careful as to how he pronounces his names because the proper inflection or lack there of can hand another being power over him.  We saw how upset Uriel got when Harry tried to mess with his real name. However Uriel was okay with an all together different nickname that wasn't connected to his real name.  So I think when Harry gives us his full name, he is then daring us after we know his full story to conjure with his name, if we can.