Did Butters break the Laws of Magic?

[seanham]

I am rereading Summer Knight and came to the part where the Mind Fog was released into the supermarket and Harry calls the Fog illegal. Now that reminded me of Skin Game where Butters had the globes of Mind Fog. Butters was using them against Binder's goons but I'd bet this wasn't the first time he used them. If so could Butters be in violation of the Laws of Magic?

[g33k]

I am rereading Summer Knight and came to the part where the Mind Fog was released into the supermarket and Harry calls the Fog illegal. Now that reminded me of Skin Game where Butters had the globes of Mind Fog. Butters was using them against Binder's goons but I'd bet this wasn't the first time he used them. If so could Butters be in violation of the Laws of Magic?

Dunno... *could* be, I guess (in violation offscreen, that is:  Binders goons are *not* protected by the Laws, only mortals are); but I seriously doubt it!

I would bet Butters got a really-comprehensive briefing from Bob, and understood what does/doesn't violate the Laws.  I expect he was pretty dam*ed careful about how he used his Batmagic (not wanting to be snicker-snacked by Warden-attention).

Bob would have been extra-careful to brief him, because warden-attention on Butters would have all too likely resulted in warden-attention on Butters/Dresden/DuMorne/Kemmler's infamous lab-assistant...

Last but not at all least:  Butters was being all "Incipient Knight of the Cross" at the time, so we have good evidence that he was being extraordinarily ethical and moral in every respect.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Bob created the mind fog, not Butters and Bob is not subject to the jurisdiction of the White Council.

My guess is Butters came up with the idea of of the containment of the mind fog, and that isn’t against the laws of magic.

[forumghost]

Last but not at all least:  Butters was being all "Incipient Knight of the Cross" at the time, so we have good evidence that he was being extraordinarily ethical and moral in every respect.

I mean bearing in mind Sanya's occupation immediately before becoming a knight I kinda doubt this matters.

The relevant point is probably that Bob was the one doing the magic, not Butter's so he's clear as far as the universe is concerned. The council might have a different view, but they aren't likely to start anything over it because he's a knight now.

Besides, if they ever looked into him they'd probably be so impressed by Butters genius and manliness that they'd depose Langtry and elect him the new Merlin, never mind charging him.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You forgot geekiness, Butters Geek credentials in everything from D & D to Polka beat a mere Bottle Cap Collector into a cocked hat.

I do hope Jim is going to pay off the whole bottle cap collection thing at one point.

[g33k]

I mean bearing in mind Sanya's occupation immediately before becoming a knight I kinda doubt this matters...

Immediately before becoming a Knight (of the Cross), Sanya was supernaturally-unemployed; at loose ends.

But as for his "credentials:"  he had just rejected his Coin, one he had entirely-accepted in becoming a Knight o.t.B.D.  That's pretty dang impressive, right there.

[Mira]

Immediately before becoming a Knight (of the Cross), Sanya was supernaturally-unemployed; at loose ends.

But as for his "credentials:"  he had just rejected his Coin, one he had entirely-accepted in becoming a Knight o.t.B.D.  That's pretty dang impressive, right there.

Yeah, if I recall correctly it was because he rejected his Coin that he was offered the job.

[g33k]

Bob created the mind fog, not Butters ...

I'm pretty sure the Council cares about both:  who created and who uses.
Butters was using the magic.  If he used it to invade Mortal minds, he was likely in violation.  Just as (for example) someone who uses a Hexenwulf-belt to kill has killed with magic.

... Bob is not subject to the jurisdiction of the White Council ...

<heh>
I am tolerably certain that the White Council feels they do indeed have jurisdiction over Bob ...

[Mira]

I am tolerably certain that the White Council feels they do indeed have jurisdiction over Bob ...

  Yup, Luccio mentioned to Harry that the Wardens were looking for the skull when they killed Kemmler.  Object being to destroy the skull and the spirit with in.  They didn't know that Warden Justin who was part of the raid had already taken and hidden the skull from their detection.  Of course this was Evil Bob from Kemmler's time, his personality changed when Harry started calling him Bob and asked him to forget or block who he had been when Kemmler and Justin were his master.

[LordDresden2]

I am rereading Summer Knight and came to the part where the Mind Fog was released into the supermarket and Harry calls the Fog illegal. Now that reminded me of Skin Game where Butters had the globes of Mind Fog. Butters was using them against Binder's goons but I'd bet this wasn't the first time he used them. If so could Butters be in violation of the Laws of Magic?

The Laws?  No.  Other Council rules?  Maybe.

Remember what Harry observed when we first saw a mind fog: it was an unlicensed mind fog.  Which means that the use of mind fogs is permitted sometimes.  There are other Council rules besides the fundamental Laws, they just aren't nearly as important or necessarily all have the death penalty.

Butters would likely get into more trouble for having Bob than for the mind fog.

[peterwiggin94]

My personal favorite explanation is that the Council allows for flexibility in matters of self defense or defense of one's interests. We know that they allow for killing via magic in defense and I wouldn't be shocked in relatively minor breaks to some of the other 6 would be allowed too. One example is Dresden's wards that "suggested" people skip his bolt hole. Those were a gray area but, since they didn't cause permanent harm or major effects to the timestream and were in self defense, so they were fine. The mind fog grenades that Butters had only worked temporarily (if I remember correctly) and he got them while trying to help the humans of Chicago. My suspicion is that most Wardens would have let Butters off with a warning but tried to kill/capture Bob.

[Dina]

My personal favorite explanation is that the Council allows for flexibility in matters of self defense or defense of one's interests. We know that they allow for killing via magic in defense and I wouldn't be shocked in relatively minor breaks to some of the other 6 would be allowed too. One example is Dresden's wards that "suggested" people skip his bolt hole. Those were a gray area but, since they didn't cause permanent harm or major effects to the timestream and were in self defense, so they were fine. The mind fog grenades that Butters had only worked temporarily (if I remember correctly) and he got them while trying to help the humans of Chicago. My suspicion is that most Wardens would have let Butters off with a warning but tried to kill/capture Bob.

I agree with this but I also think it is relevant what others said. Butters being a Knight and not being the one casting the fog himself would probably save him for bad repercusion with the WC.