ebenezer didn't look for harry

[robl]

why didn't ebenezer look for harry when malcolm died.  he could have used his own blood to search for him since they were of the same blood.  I know that morgan was looking for him but could not find him but I figured ebenezer would have moved heaven and earth to find him and the blood magic would not be easily stopped by justin.

[Mira]

  That's the $64,000.00 question as they used to say.  We've been kicking that subject around for years.

[Regenbogen]

I think there are 2 possibilities:

#1
After reading Peace Talks, he did look for Harry and he did find him. But he didn't take him in, because he was taken care of. I think he planned on watching, if little Harry started showing magical talent at some time. If it never happened, Harry would never have known him. If Harry showed talent, Ebenezar would have taken him as apprentice or apprentice him to an other wizard he trusted.

But then Harry was adopted by Justin. Maybe Justin even got a tip from Ebenezar. During this time Justin was still supposed to be a respected warden, so good master material for Harry. But why did Eb approve of Justin not introducing his apprentice to the council?

#2
After Malcolm died, Lea took care that Harry disappeared from all mundane and magical screens, because of a deal Margaret made with her for Harry's protection. So nobody could find Harry. Not even powerful wizards with blood relation. Justin was just screening the orphanages for weird incidences. That's how he found Harry. It was the impossible long jump.


I think #2 is more likely, considering Morgan's journal entry. I guess, Justin still appeared at council meetings, but never told any other council wizard about his apprentices. But I also can totally imagine Ebenezar knowing where his grandson was, but just not interfering. Like he seemed to have done with his own daughter.
I hope this will be cleared up some day.

[Mira]

After reading Peace Talks, he did look for Harry and he did find him. But he didn't take him in, because he was taken care of. I think he planned on watching, if little Harry started showing magical talent at some time. If it never happened, Harry would never have known him. If Harry showed talent, Ebenezar would have taken him as apprentice or apprentice him to an other wizard he trusted.

  Oh wonderful, a fightened six year old orphan all alone in the world, ward of the state, in an orphanage... His only known living relative ignores him, but might take an interest if little Harry showed any talent as he nears the age of eleven or twelve.. This was for Harry's own good, mind you, I guess Eb could rationalize a couple of reasons for doing that... 

But then Harry was adopted by Justin. Maybe Justin even got a tip from Ebenezar. During this time Justin was still supposed to be a respected warden, so good master material for Harry. But why did Eb approve of Justin not introducing his apprentice to the council?

Better question, why is it that only a couple of trusted wizards even know that Harry is he grandson?

After Malcolm died, Lea took care that Harry disappeared from all mundane and magical screens, because of a deal Margaret made with her for Harry's protection. So nobody could find Harry. Not even powerful wizards with blood relation. Justin was just screening the orphanages for weird incidences. That's how he found Harry. It was the impossible long jump.

Is it?  I don't buy that Justin decided one day in his retirement since he had nothing better to do, that it would be great to raise a couple of kids. So he scoured all the orphanages in the country looking for kids with talent, better yet kids that could qualify as star born, to adopt. I think there is a lot more to this story that we don't know yet.

I think #2 is more likely, considering Morgan's journal entry. I guess, Justin still appeared at council meetings, but never told any other council wizard about his apprentices. But I also can totally imagine Ebenezar knowing where his grandson was, but just not interfering. Like he seemed to have done with his own daughter.
I hope this will be cleared up some day.

I hope so too, there is also the little matter of why didn't Eb reveal to young Harry when he took him in under the Doom that he was his grandfather?

Bottom line? Eb shouldn't be lecturing Harry on how to raise his own daughter!  Wizards who live in wooden houses shouldn't be throwing fire balls!

[KurtinStGeorge]

I think there are 2 possibilities:

#1
After reading Peace Talks, he did look for Harry and he did find him. But he didn't take him in, because he was taken care of. I think he planned on watching, if little Harry started showing magical talent at some time. If it never happened, Harry would never have known him. If Harry showed talent, Ebenezar would have taken him as apprentice or apprentice him to an other wizard he trusted.

But then Harry was adopted by Justin. Maybe Justin even got a tip from Ebenezar. During this time Justin was still supposed to be a respected warden, so good master material for Harry. But why did Eb approve of Justin not introducing his apprentice to the council?

#2
After Malcolm died, Lea took care that Harry disappeared from all mundane and magical screens, because of a deal Margaret made with her for Harry's protection. So nobody could find Harry. Not even powerful wizards with blood relation. Justin was just screening the orphanages for weird incidences. That's how he found Harry. It was the impossible long jump.


I think #2 is more likely, considering Morgan's journal entry. I guess, Justin still appeared at council meetings, but never told any other council wizard about his apprentices. But I also can totally imagine Ebenezar knowing where his grandson was, but just not interfering. Like he seemed to have done with his own daughter.
I hope this will be cleared up some day.

I won't be surprised if eventually we are told that Lea is the reason why Justin found out about and got ahold of Harry.  Now that I think about it, it is also possible Lea knows something about Elaine's origin story.  However, there is nothing in the novels, short stories or Q&A sessions with Jim that I've watched; and I've watched a lot of them, that remotely support this second idea.  It's pure speculation.

About my first and main idea, I keep thinking about a WoJ that states that Margaret LeFey didn't make the best possible deal she might have made with Lea for Harry's protection.  I have previously assumed that Margaret got Lea to agree to protect Harry from outside threats but didn't realize that Malcolm Dresden might also need protection.  In other words, Margaret thought that because Malcom Dresden wasn't a player in the supernatural world no one in that world would have a reason to target him.  Then again, perhaps Margaret did get Lea to agree to protect Malcolm Dresden, from everyone except herself.  I theorize that Lea either stood by and did nothing when Malcolm Dresden was murdered or she did it herself.

Lea's deal with Justin could have started when Malcolm Dresden was still alive.  Remove Malcolm to trap the boy in a system where he could be easily monitored and not wander the country with his father where anyone else might find him. Once Harry manifested magical abilities, Justin was suited to teach Harry basic use of magic.  Malcolm couldn't teach Harry about magic, so he was probably always seen as expendable by Lea. 

In my version of events Lea knew exactly what kind of person Justin was; even if the White Council didn't know, or fully know, about Justin.  She always planned to turn on him at the first opportunity and gain the use of Harry's abilities for herself.  Justin probably never realized that Lea had been training Harry; apparently to just believe in himself, when Harry returned to face him.  It's a series of moves that the White Court of Vampires would approve of.

[Mira]

In my version of events Lea knew exactly what kind of person Justin was; even if the White Council didn't know, or fully know, about Justin.  She always planned to turn on him at the first opportunity and gain the use of Harry's abilities for herself.  Justin probably never realized that Lea had been training Harry; apparently to just believe in himself, when Harry returned to face him.  It's a series of moves that the White Court of Vampires would approve of.

What would the White Court of Vampires have to do with Lea and Justin?  Yes, Lord Raith murdered Harry's mother, but I don't see any evidence that he had anything to do with either Lea or Justin.

[KurtinStGeorge]

What would the White Court of Vampires have to do with Lea and Justin?  Yes, Lord Raith murdered Harry's mother, but I don't see any evidence that he had anything to do with either Lea or Justin.

I should have explained.  It's manipulation on a scale that someone like Lara Raith could admire, though Lara or any of the Raiths would have used a different method to attain it. 

Lea makes a deal with Margarite LeFay to protect Harry, then while still fulfilling her given word, either allows Harry's father to be murdered or does it herself as part of a deal with Justin DuMorne.  DuMorne thinks he has won a great prize but Lea has simply offloaded the drudge work of teaching Harry basic magic skills until she can find a way to dispose of Justin.  A break between Justin and Harry (Did Lea have anything to do with that? Meaning, did she have another deal with whoever summoned HWWB?) allows Lea to get Harry to remove Justin for her and to top everything off, it allows Lea to make a binding deal with a young, desperate and naïve, starborn wizard Harry.

P.S. New topic on the same character.  Thinking back to the dénouement of the Battle of Chicken Pizza in Changes, Ebenezer approaches Harry and Lea and asks her to leave so he can discus "family business" with Harry.  Ebenezer knew who Lea was and he knew that she knew about Eb and Harry's familial relationship. 

It is one thing for Ebenezer to recognize The Leanansidhe; Lea is a very powerful figure in the Winter Court and Ebenezer has been around long enough to have had some experience with the fae, but as was pointed out in Battle Ground, Eb doesn't believe in casually dropping any information about anything, especially family.  Even if Eb guessed that Lea knew that Eb was Harry's grandfather, he still wouldn't have mentioned it, he might have said something like "White Council business" instead.

What I want to know is, how did Ebenezer know that Lea knew?  Margaret LeFay was on the run and probably realized that her time was running out when she made the deal with Lea to protect Harry.  Ebenezer wasn't there.  Ebenezer didn't visit Harry in the orphanage, Lea did.  Even if Harry told Eb about the deal he had struck with Lea to defeat Justin; after the White Council put Harry under the Doom of Damocles and under Eb's guidance, Ebenezer wouldn't have known how much Lea knew about Harry's family.

Did Ebenezer make his own deal with Lea?  I'm not speculating what such a deal might have involved, but those two know each other and not just by reputation.  It suggests something more is going on here and perhaps something important. 

[Mira]

Lea makes a deal with Margarite LeFay to protect Harry, then while still fulfilling her given word, either allows Harry's father to be murdered or does it herself as part of a deal with Justin DuMorne.  DuMorne thinks he has won a great prize but Lea has simply offloaded the drudge work of teaching Harry basic magic skills until she can find a way to dispose of Justin.  A break between Justin and Harry (Did Lea have anything to do with that? Meaning, did she have another deal with whoever summoned HWWB?) allows Lea to get Harry to remove Justin for her and to top everything off, it allows Lea to make a binding deal with a young, desperate and naïve, starborn wizard Harry.

I think you give Lea too much credit for preplanning young Harry's life.  I think the original mistake was made by Margaret when she made the bargain to protect her baby in the first place.  The mistake was believing that the Fae would understand fully the ways of humans.  Since she was human once, Mab has this understanding, but Lea was born a Fae I believe.  Early in the books we discover her ways of "protecting" Harry are a bit odd, like wanting to turn him into one of her hounds for example.  I don't believe she "threatened" this out of malice as Harry thought, but because of her misunderstanding of human thinking she actually thought it was a good way to protect him.

P.S. New topic on the same character.  Thinking back to the dénouement of the Battle of Chicken Pizza in Changes, Ebenezer approaches Harry and Lea and asks her to leave so he can discus "family business" with Harry.  Ebenezer knew who Lea was and he knew that she knew about Eb and Harry's familial relationship.

It is one thing for Ebenezer to recognize The Leanansidhe; Lea is a very powerful figure in the Winter Court and Ebenezer has been around long enough to have had some experience with the fae, but as was pointed out in Battle Ground, Eb doesn't believe in casually dropping any information about anything, especially family.  Even if Eb guessed that Lea knew that Eb was Harry's grandfather, he still wouldn't have mentioned it, he might have said something like "White Council business" instead.

Yet he must have known that Lea was Harry's godmother, thus knew about Margaret and I bet his connection.  He also had to be aware that one of the main reasons for Harry's success in the mission was Mab's help when no one else was willing to help him take on the Red Court.  I think the reason for Eb wanting to talk to Harry out of Lea's earshot was his reassurance to Harry that even though he was now Mab's Winter Knight, he still had free will and could use his own judgement when Mab ordered him to do something he thought was wrong.

Did Ebenezer make his own deal with Lea?  I'm not speculating what such a deal might have involved, but those two know each other and not just by reputation.  It suggests something more is going on here and perhaps something important. 

I agree that there is a lot more to the original bargain, also that it will play a critical role in future events.

[vincentric]

I think Harry not being found was a combination of Justin and Lea hiding him but not necessarily working together to do so.

Justin took Harry from the orphanage and hid the legal traces and some of the magical ones. He may have been good enough all on his own, but Lea may have helped here by obscuring the trail long enough for it to grow too cold for Eb's and Morgan's searches to find him.

Why would she do that? She has a deal with Maggie Sr. to protect Harry but she's not operating from a humancentric moral stance. Justin was keeping Harry (and Elayne) safe and training them in magic. She might have thought he would be safer there than in the households that Eb/Morgan would make for them. Plus, she never lost track of Harry. She's watched from the NeverNever to fulfil her obligation towards Harry until Ghost Story. She even kept Harry's homes linked to her realms in the NeverNever so she could see when he was in trouble. When Justin turned on Harry, she came running, saw that Harry had beaten HWWB and gave him the confidence he needed to face Justin, who Harry perceived as a bigger threat. Since Harry won, she didn't need to step in.

Risky? Yes. Tough Love? She's Winter Fae, I think that's all they understand.