Goodman Grey, nemfected?

[RobReece]

I can't remember if this had been discussed or not.  Probably had, but is there any consensus on if he was open to possession from the time he spent with Justine?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Goodman Grey is a single unaffiliated individual, his Nemfection would not advance Nemesis cause one jot.

Nemesis appears to be finite, incapable of mass infection. We know from the Corner Hounds that they can control a maximum of 13 bodies. Obviously controlling a powerful strong willed individual would be more difficult than a blank ectoplasmic body so that number is limited by the strength of the host, and their degree of cooperation.Note Justine simply didn’t infect Thomas, she revealed herself and blackmailed him.

I think Nemesis was overstretched as part may have been “Killed” with previous hosts (I think with Madeleine Lara consumed part of Nemesis) leaving Nemesis weak) I therefore think there wasn’t enough Nemesis to go around to infect Goodman Grey at that point.

Justine was especially vulnerable to Nemesis, Goodman Grey was not.

[Regenbogen]

@Conspiracy Theorist:
I do hope you are right. Though the Leanandsidhe managed to get nemfected, and she is supposed to be powerful. What was her weakness?

I don't think Nemesis infects only the weak people, though it may be easier to gain access. I think the walker tries to infect people in a position near to those defending the gates, or better to say those who seem to play a role in preventing the Outsiders to become Insiders.
Does Grey play a role in this? No idea. He is not that close to anybody and  no one trusts him that much, so probably not a preferable host.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Athame was a specially prepared vector, and Nemesis may have been stronger at that point, not having split up into multiple parts. We have no complete idea who really was infected and when.

[raidem]

This is interesting. If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her or with Mab/Winter's Heart.  That split of power is a significantly higher investment than likely those of mere mortals.  It could be that like others said that power in stasis has led to a weakening of Nemesis' power that can be utilized outside of that stasis.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

That is a viable prospect the portion of Nemesis infecting Lea may have been forced into another host currently held captive in Mab’s Ice Garden prison. Someone less powerful on Mab’s poop list.

Nameless was exiled after the abortive attempt to free Lea, so that may corroborate this theory, if Nameless (as Cowl) was the inside man for the Arctis Tor attack he couldn’t act to free the imprisoned part of Nemesis.

We have been presuming that Nemesis arose just before Grave Peril. What if they started much earlier and a significant portion of nemesis infected the English Prisoner and he accepted voluntary incarceration? What if Justine was infected with 1/13th of Nemesis and the rest was either in Demonreach or Arctis Tor trapped? That would explain Justine  trying to access Demonreach. As I said before we have not a very clear idea of Nemesis full vectors who was infected an when and whether they were cooperative hosts or fighting against Nemfection.

[g33k]

... If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her ...

In fact Lea does still have Nemesis issues, even after Mab's treatment.
When she spoke to Harry she wasn't able to explain very much, saying she couldn't think about it much "lest she become vulnerable again" (or somesuch).

[Avernite]

This is interesting. If Lea hasn't been 'cured' but treated, then it could be that nemesis in some capacity remains with her or with Mab/Winter's Heart.  That split of power is a significantly higher investment than likely those of mere mortals.  It could be that like others said that power in stasis has led to a weakening of Nemesis' power that can be utilized outside of that stasis.

*mere* mortals?

As Harry aptly explained, mere mortals can defy absolutely everyone. Most don't, but they can. I wouldn't think infecting, say, Charity Carpenter would be cheaper/easier than infecting Maeve.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

In fact Lea does still have Nemesis issues, even after Mab's treatment.
When she spoke to Harry she wasn't able to explain very much, saying she couldn't think about it much "lest she become vulnerable again" (or somesuch).

PTSD what you think Mab is into art therapy and kind words? She would have had to drive Nemwsis out, so Lea doesn’t suffer from the infection, she suffered from the cure and may be something like a recovering alcoholic

[raidem]

We do have WOJ that Mab thought what she did with Lea/Nemesis infection was the best option.  Mab is going to find there is some negative outcome with how she went about treating Lea.  Some believe Nemesis came to infect the Heart of Winter.

[raidem]

*mere* mortals?

As Harry aptly explained, mere mortals can defy absolutely everyone. Most don't, but they can. I wouldn't think infecting, say, Charity Carpenter would be cheaper/easier than infecting Maeve.

I was aware of the "mere mortal" issue when I wrote it.  I still think it is largely true that nemesis infection of a Mother would tie up more of Nemesis than an infection of mortals, even Charity.  I think a 'defy absolutely everyone' if it was in play would outright prevent infection.  Also, it may be that Charity isn't quite all Mortal as she had some wizard heritage.

[g33k]

PTSD what you think Mab is into art therapy and kind words? She would have had to drive Nemwsis out, so Lea doesn’t suffer from the infection, she suffered from the cure ...

There may be some PTSD or PTSD-alike from Mab's "cure" (and/or from the Nemfection, which seems traumatic to experience (if we are to judge from Cat Sith's struggles, etc)).

But Lea didn't say it would be painful; she said she was still vulnerable:  Nemesis still has some sort of "inside track" into Lea's mind; just thinking about Nemfection puts her at risk of a recurrence.

... and may be something like a recovering alcoholic

This could be a good model.
Or cancer in remission.
I don't think we know, really.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Lea was free for a time from the restrictions of Winter Law, that she may miss, we have seen how Aurora and Maeve both chafed under the Law, so that’s why there is a degree of wistfulness about her Nemfection, as well as negative emotions. Unfortunately there isn’t a Nemesis Anonymous, Lea is the only current survivor. Perhaps she can be a sponsor to Justine? I can see Harry suggesting that.Nemesis appears to have freed Justine from her pre-existing condition, so again when Justine is free of Nemesis she may be vulnerable.

Goodman Grey could be vulnerable if Nemesis was able to free him of his rent obligation, but he doesn’t appear to be unduly chafing under that. A full Naagloshii might be more vulnerable in that respect and I think Nemesis would love to partner up with Shagnasty, and it might be mutual, like Maeve and Aurora. There might be enough Nemesis in Justine for that. Shaggy eats Wizards, targeting the White council and the Senior Council in particular would benefit Nemesis and Shaggy. Nemesis would want the Gatekeeper, Shaggy, Listens To The Wind. If LTW cannot banish Shaggy because Nemesis has removed Shaggys restrictions then LTW is in big trouble, and he is already injured.

It’s not Goodman Grey I worry about being nemfected..

I think we are due for a rematch with Shagnasty, Harry is trying to get his mental health together in Next Book and Shagnasty is the ultimate test of that plus he is about to be taught shape shifting.

I would point out Harry now lives in a Castle with similar protections to the ruined Cottage on Demonreach which Shaggy found Anathema, and we have learnt you can use a veil or glamour in its vicinity. Nemesis doesn’t know this. As Harry got the Castle after deducing Justine was nemfected.

If I was taking out Shaggy I would use the superpunch built into Harry’s Staff to blow him into the Castle and then have the gargoyles whale on him .

[Mira]

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Re: Goodman Grey, nemfected?
« Reply #12 on: Today at 06:17:05 AM »

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Lea was free for a time from the restrictions of Winter Law, that she may miss, we have seen how Aurora and Maeve both chafed under the Law, so that’s why there is a degree of wistfulness about her Nemfection, as well as negative emotions. Unfortunately there isn’t a Nemesis Anonymous, Lea is the only current survivor. Perhaps she can be a sponsor to Justine? I can see Harry suggesting that.Nemesis appears to have freed Justine from her pre-existing condition, so again when Justine is free of Nemesis she may be vulnerable.

When exactly was Lea free from Winter Law restrictions? When she was infected by the Knife she may have for a time thought she was, but she wasn't.  She never was, and in the end that's why she submitted to Mab and agreed to undergo treatment.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

She could lie, she could disobey Mab, doubtless this is how Mab deduced her nemfection.