Author Topic: Rudy up on charges?  (Read 9553 times)

Offline Melriken

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2023, 06:17:34 PM »
Rudy won't be charged
Of course not, conservation of plot requires he not be charged unless it is to force Harry to defend him because he is being railroaded by someone in the supernatural community for nefarious purposes...

Yeah... Jim might just bring Rudy up on charges only for Mab to reveal that harry has to get him off... yeah... that sounds like Jim... :(

Offline Nooneofconsequence

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2023, 07:55:36 PM »
How much political pressure will Lara Raith put against a DA trying to bring charges against her fiance?
It's going to be interesting how things play out.


Offline Mira

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2023, 01:39:20 AM »
Harry was willing to allow his free will to be subsumed by the Mantle and become a humanity ending monster its that reason why the Swords were in play in this instance, not to stop the Titan, but to win the fight for Harry’s free will, as that is what eventually led to the Titan being stopped, to stop the Starborn becoming The Destroyer and dooming his universe.

  I don't think the Winter Knight's Mantle had much to do with Harry losing it and nearly killing Rudolph.  Witnessing Rudolph senselessly gunning down Murphy was the match that blew the powder keg.. Harry is a powerful wizard who became emotionally unhinged at that moment, and was willing to draw on the black.. He needed no assist, but yes, his friends were there to stop him, as friends should do.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2023, 06:30:09 AM »
I mean yes but also no. If you look at Harry's internal dialogue in that moment it's very much reminiscent of the end of Cold Day's when he let the mantle in too deep.

Like how he refers to Rudolph as a 'thing' or how he's happy that Sanya shows up to stop him because he'll put up more of a fight.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2023, 09:01:54 AM »
Harry had a handle on the Mantle despite all provocation and everything going around him, then Rudy, it was the ultimate test. However who was influencing Rudy? I have him as Cowl’s man.

Offline Mira

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2023, 10:03:18 AM »
Harry had a handle on the Mantle despite all provocation and everything going around him, then Rudy, it was the ultimate test. However who was influencing Rudy? I have him as Cowl’s man.

   Rudy is a paranoid dick, has been since we first met him.. I doubt he is Cowl's man or anyone else of the supernatural world.. No, he is simply pure vanilla human a-hole..
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I mean yes but also no. If you look at Harry's internal dialogue in that moment it's very much reminiscent of the end of Cold Day's when he let the mantle in too deep.

Like how he refers to Rudolph as a 'thing' or how he's happy that Sanya shows up to stop him because he'll put up more of a fight.
 

I don't think you can compare the two, in Cold Days he was dealing with the mantel's rages and power over things like sexual urges and violent over reactions.

Yes, he calls Rudy a thing, not because of the mantle, but because Rudy had just killed his beloved and had harassed the both of them for years.  His reaction was a normal human violent reaction to to someone murdering a loved one before his eyes.  The proof that Harry wasn't under the mantel's influence is his reaction once Sanya and Butters got him under control.. 

Offline Nooneofconsequence

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2023, 01:59:46 PM »
Fidelacchius burned Harry.  Because the mantle, supernatural "wicked faerie" power was influencing him. 
Yes his grief and anger were feeding it, but the mantle was, if not running things, then it was definitely guiding the details his actions.

Offline Mira

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2023, 02:09:59 PM »
Fidelacchius burned Harry.  Because the mantle, supernatural "wicked faerie" power was influencing him. 
Yes his grief and anger were feeding it, but the mantle was, if not running things, then it was definitely guiding the details his actions.

Or it burned him as a warning not to break one of the Ten Commandants in this case.  I don't think it was about "wicked fairy" influences, because 1] I don't think Mab or the Winter Court are evil. 2] I don't think the mantle is evil in of itself.. 3] Perhaps more importantly previously the Sword didn't burn him, the mantle was still there, I doubt if it were evil in of itself the influence would stop. Think of the mantle as a tool, it enables a human Knight to do what he or she has to do.  Can it be used for evil in the wrong vessel? Yes, it can, but that doesn't make it evil in of itself of wicked fairies.

Offline g33k

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2023, 09:04:54 PM »
Or it burned him as a warning not to break one of the Ten Commandants in this case.  I don't think it was about "wicked fairy" influences, because 1] I don't think Mab or the Winter Court are evil. 2] I don't think the mantle is evil in of itself.. 3] Perhaps more importantly previously the Sword didn't burn him, the mantle was still there, I doubt if it were evil in of itself the influence would stop. Think of the mantle as a tool, it enables a human Knight to do what he or she has to do.  Can it be used for evil in the wrong vessel? Yes, it can, but that doesn't make it evil in of itself of wicked fairies.

The Swords do not act to prevent simple human error -- even Sin -- when driven by simple human passions like fear, love, anger, pain, etc.  Sometimes the Knights will do that, offering compassion and wisdom.

The Angelic powers of the Swords only come into play when they need to neutralize Supernatural impacts.

The primary task of the Swords is to counter the Denarians, but they help whenever the Supernatural is threatening to take away humans' free will.

Harry felt pain because he was "acting under the influence," not from his own free will; or, possibly, because (under the WK Mantle) he himself was a "Supernatural" influence.

My bet, though, is that Lasciel was the Guilty Party here; that she's still got some sort of hooks into Harry.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2023, 10:43:19 PM »
It wasn't a case of the WK mantle taking over Harry in a moment of rage, it was Harry embracing the rage and becoming the mantle.

The sword burned Harry in this case because he is a Supernatural now. The mantle gives him several powers and he has the fae vulnerability to iron.  The sword did what was necessary to defend Rudy from the Winter Knight but only enough to shock Harry out of the bad choice he made.

Offline Mira

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2023, 03:49:10 AM »
It wasn't a case of the WK mantle taking over Harry in a moment of rage, it was Harry embracing the rage and becoming the mantle.

The sword burned Harry in this case because he is a Supernatural now. The mantle gives him several powers and he has the fae vulnerability to iron.  The sword did what was necessary to defend Rudy from the Winter Knight but only enough to shock Harry out of the bad choice he made.

Except the Sword of Faith is no longer made of iron, nor was Harry anymore supernatural then as he was in the beginning of Peace Talks when he touched the blade without harm... It is weird because in Death Masks Susan couldn't take the Sword of Faith to carry for Harry without it burning her.  Yes, she was half vamp now, but she didn't have any evil intent when he handed her the Sword so he could climb up the ladder being injured.  However in Changes, she could wield the Sword of Love as a Knight for one night to save her daughter.  What I am trying to say is it is complicated.
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The Swords do not act to prevent simple human error -- even Sin -- when driven by simple human passions like fear, love, anger, pain, etc.  Sometimes the Knights will do that, offering compassion and wisdom.
Normally, but Harry isn't normal, humans aren't normally gifted with soul fire either.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 03:51:18 AM by Mira »

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2023, 05:21:36 AM »
  I don't think the Winter Knight's Mantle had much to do with Harry losing it and nearly killing Rudolph.  Witnessing Rudolph senselessly gunning down Murphy was the match that blew the powder keg.. Harry is a powerful wizard who became emotionally unhinged at that moment, and was willing to draw on the black.. He needed no assist, but yes, his friends were there to stop him, as friends should do.
indeed, he didn't use wintery style magic or anything flavored with it... Though if I'm remembering the right description(couple scenes it could have been) his mindset really resembled that he touched upon in HWWBH, the self loathing and hatred mixed.

Offline Nooneofconsequence

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2023, 03:19:00 AM »
I put "Wicked Faerie" in quotes because I also disagree with the simplistic view of Mab as "evil".  She's cold, ruthless  and apparently driven by logic and reason to an inhuman degree (though she clearly does have strong emotions). But all that just makes her, well, inhuman.  Which she is. 

Offline Mira

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2023, 10:26:56 AM »
I put "Wicked Faerie" in quotes because I also disagree with the simplistic view of Mab as "evil".  She's cold, ruthless  and apparently driven by logic and reason to an inhuman degree (though she clearly does have strong emotions). But all that just makes her, well, inhuman.  Which she is.

Perhaps, but it wasn't her influence that caused Harry to attack Rudy.  I think a point being missed is he was also "judging" Rudy, that is a big no,no... That was the big mistake Murphy had made when she broke the Sword when she tried to kill Nic.

Offline Nooneofconsequence

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Re: Rudy up on charges?
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2023, 02:48:13 AM »
And there's the fact that Harry wasn't just killing Rudolph.
He was killing Rudolph slowly and cruelly, while savoring his terror.  And that is the Winter Mantle's influence.