Harry and the semi-immortal shapeshifter

[vincentric]

If Harry want to become a freeholding lord, I'm sure he could get Mab and Lara to sign for him. But why bother? He'd already be the Winter Knight and the consort of the White Queen. Why take on the extra work?

[The_Sibelis]

No, the last time around it was a mortal that was put in charge of the defense of the Outer Gates and that mortal was transformed into Fey and created the entire Fey Courts for the purpose.

na, Before Mab was the original Winter Queen iirc, who was an actual fae. It's been hinted at that Toots size progression was similar in how the sidhe formed. If we're going to talk abtthe cycle and it's constant inversion tho.. if we consider Mab that last cycle, then a human was elevated to a known position. This time said human should be outright making said position.

Humans won't be put in charge of the outer gates, whoever ends up in charge of them will stop being human. That probably is Harry... but he won't be human in that case, he will be something else.

The story starts with "My name is Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden, conjure by it at your own risk"... he doesn't end up human.

[Snark Knight]

I don't see Wizard of Chicago as a mantle. Why should only Chicago get one? Where is his domain? Marcone's lands? Demonreach is the White council's  prison, not Harry's.

I don't think Demonreach is the White Council's, actually. Just because Merlin made it doesn't mean they've kept up continuous control over it. They failed to prevent one of their worst enemies, Kemmler, from becoming one of the more recent Wardens, and they basically view any of their members taking up the Warden mantle with actual knowledge of what they're doing as tantamount to an act of rebellion and declaration of war on the Council.

Basically the few of them who are aware of Demonreach at all want it kept dormant.  It's not much of a claim.  Now that they've kicked Harry out, announcing himself as Warden is probably his best claim to being an independent power. Now, is that a good idea? Probably not - it would draw the attention of any nasties who haven't already realized he's the Warden.

[g33k]

I don't see Wizard of Chicago as a mantle. Why should only Chicago get one? Where is his domain? Marcone's lands?

"Wizard of Chicago" could be a mantle... eventually.  It isn't now.

A mantle would have to be created (or form naturally... the genesis of a new Mantle is AFAIK nowhere described, neither in the canonical stories nor WoJ; but I think Harry "raising a banner" in BG is a hint both as to how a "Mantle" might form, and Harry's suitability as a foundational figure).

Demonreach is the White council's  prison, not Harry's.

No, the relationship between Demonreach & the Warden is its own thing.  I don't doubt the WC would love to claim it as "theirs," but it isn't.

My own WAG is that it's the other way around:  the prison/well is the critical and most-important element.  The White Council was created as an adjunct to the prison, and the Warden.  They are, after all, a Council.  By the very definition of the word, they are councilors -- advisors; but to whom?  To "the Merlin?"  I think not:  when decisions are made, "the Merlin" gets an equal vote (much as "the Gatekeeper" does).


 

And i doubt Molly AND Mab can sign for him - it is likely not the individual who signs, it is their realm that they sign FOR. Biden does not sign a treaty for Joe, he signs for the US. Mab signs for Winter. Molly is subsidiary for Mab, she does not sign. The Lady signing as herself is like the Blackstaff signing for himself, not for the White Council. 

Agreed.  Any signatory to the Accords can only sign once; you cannot have 2 people from the same signatory.


 

  Harry is likely still considered under two signatories, the WC and Winter. They won't give him another flag. (yes, under the White Council - recall the challenge in the deeps - even the White king said the minor practitioners landed under the White Council's sphere  though they were not members of it.

Disagreed.  Harry is no longer WC, they kicked him out.  The WC certainly won't be honoring his signture as a WC rep under the Accords!

They are of course obligated to honor if he signs as Winter (and one of the 3 Winter Queens doesn't repudiate it).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not going to be a Mantle - it’s a Title, a Mantle is very different - an intangible construct of power. Where would Harry get the power to create a Mantle? The knowledge? Is someone else going to make it for him? He would then be beholden to them.

As I have theorised it is actually more likely that he is able to undertake a sanctum invocation with a nascent genius loci of Chicago. Chicago is one of the great characters of the series, it has already been manifested as as avatar through Little Chicago, and the creation and destruction of that Avatar must have led to something perhaps the creation or waking up of a genius loci. That may also finally explain who fixed Little Chicago - Big Chicago did.

[Snark Knight]

As I have theorised it is actually more likely that he is able to undertake a sanctum invocation with a nascent genius loci of Chicago.

If there is a genius loci of Chicago, Namshiel could have given Marcone a substantial lead over Harry towards recognizing its existence and bonding with it - provided Namshiel doesn't fear making the host too powerful, in their relationship, anyway.

Bonding with a genius loci would go a long way towards explaining why Marcone was able to manifest his own Banner in BG, though.  Harry's was as a function of the Knight mantle.  I don't see why being a Denarian would grant Marcone the same, but being bonded to the spirit of the city would make for a stronger case.

That's not to say Harry might not be Marcone's successor to it at some point, but if you're right about such a genius loci existing, I suspect it's already spoken for at this point.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Um, Marcone is Knight of the Blackened Denarius it is likely that elements of the later winter and Summer Knights Mantles were modelled on the Denarians capacities it is likely that Nick was able to use it with the Squires but neglected to tell the others, but Namshiel figured it out anyway. Frankly it was a big clue that Marcone had taken up a coin, enough for Mab to realise from a cryptic remark from Harry.

It largely depends whether the fire destroyed Little Chicago or not  leaving it in Namshiels hands or drove the embryo genius loci out into the City itself.

[g33k]

... It largely depends whether the fire destroyed Little Chicago or not ...

I'm pretty sure WoJ was that LC got destroyed.

I was surprised; I'd have thought the underbasement -- with a little-teeny-tiny-entry -- would have been pretty safe from the fire.  And the trap-door was intact, down there in the bottom of the Castle.

I had been expecting LC to re-surface, honestly (though the Battle of Chicago would have trashed much of it, ruining correspondences).

[The_Sibelis]

I'm pretty sure WoJ was that LC got destroyed.

I was surprised; I'd have thought the underbasement -- with a little-teeny-tiny-entry -- would have been pretty safe from the fire.  And the trap-door was intact, down there in the bottom of the Castle.

I had been expecting LC to re-surface, honestly (though the Battle of Chicago would have trashed much of it, ruining correspondences).

Jim lies. That's definitely one of them. Harry even goes into his old basement in either PT or BG, it's not overly scorched that I recall 🤔

[g33k]

Jim lies. That's definitely one of them. Harry even goes into his old basement in either PT or BG, it's not overly scorched that I recall 🤔

I don't think it's important enough to lie about.  I think Jim wanted it to be destroyed, it was one of the changes in Changes.

It's not like it's an issue such as "what did Lea do that will make Harry want to kill her" or "who is Cowl" or "How did Malcolm Dresden die, precisely?" &c. 

I'm kinda-sorta expecting Harry to rebuild LC.

See, he's got this army of Little People:  he could dispatch them all over Chicago to collect new fragments of the new construction, and reconstitute the physical model overnight.

As the Warden, he can tap into immeasurable power of the ley-lines, and empower LCv2 with a single spell.

I think Nammy (& maybe others) found the ruined LC, realized how much time Harry had sunk into it, and will be counting on Harry not to have LC available anymore (without a similar amount of time invested (which he has not had)).  But Harry has new ways to cheat.

And after all:  he IS the Wizard of Chicago, now!

[The_Sibelis]

I don't think it's important enough to lie about.  I think Jim wanted it to be destroyed, it was one of the changes in Changes.

course it is. It doesn't connect to Chicago anymore you know, it's too outdated from how Chicago is now, especially after BG. What it connect's to is hoe Chicago was when it was made. That's a very important distinction I think.

It's not like it's an issue such as "what did Lea do that will make Harry want to kill her" or "who is Cowl" or "How did Malcolm Dresden die, precisely?" &c. 

I'm kinda-sorta expecting Harry to rebuild LC.

See, he's got this army of Little People:  he could dispatch them all over Chicago to collect new fragments of the new construction, and reconstitute the physical model overnight.

As the Warden, he can tap into immeasurable power of the ley-lines, and empower LCv2 with a single spell.

I think Nammy (& maybe others) found the ruined LC, realized how much time Harry had sunk into it, and will be counting on Harry not to have LC available anymore (without a similar amount of time invested (which he has not had)).  But Harry has new ways to cheat.

And after all:  he IS the Wizard of Chicago, now!

doubt he'd have to remake it by hand. In the vein of similarities between Dresden and Odin, Odin had a much sleeker holographic version of what Harry made.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I don't think it's important enough to lie about.  I think Jim wanted it to be destroyed, it was one of the changes in Changes.

It's not like it's an issue such as "what did Lea do that will make Harry want to kill her" or "who is Cowl" or "How did Malcolm Dresden die, precisely?" &c. 

I'm kinda-sorta expecting Harry to rebuild LC.

See, he's got this army of Little People:  he could dispatch them all over Chicago to collect new fragments of the new construction, and reconstitute the physical model overnight.

And after all:  he IS the Wizard of Chicago, now!

It would just be a map of the pie shops.

LC could be destroyed by fire but that may merely force LC into BC, and yes if it had survived it would be badly out of date.

Here’s a thought - if LC was developing as an embryo Genius Loci- maybe it fixed itself?