The White Council is kind of a Joke.

[Snark Knight]

🤔 I thought the island has sat dormant since kemmler was the warden?

The WOJ on Kemmler came from someone asking who was the previous Warden. Jim wouldn't answer the last one, but he did volunteer Kemmler being the next previous before that.

"Eb took up the Blackstaff in 1884-1885 somewhere in there.” And “The Blackstaff chooses his successor." - Jim 2016 DF Reddit podcast Q&A

Eb also said New Madrid was one of the disasters he'd caused with it, though, and that earthquake was sometime in the 1810's. So either Jim was answering that one off the cuff and misspoke his timeline, or Eb borrowed the staff for a one-off before taking it up permanently.

[Mira]

Eb also said New Madrid was one of the disasters he'd caused with it, though, and that earthquake was sometime in the 1810's. So either Jim was answering that one off the cuff and misspoke his timeline, or Eb borrowed the staff for a one-off before taking it up permanently.

  I think he meant that the Blackstaff enabled him to use the kind of magic that would cause such a thing by protecting him from being corrupted by it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I believe like Christos, Fortier tended to represent African and Asian interests on the White Council, leaving him little opportunity to visit Demonreach in North America. There was also concern that with Eb finally accepting a seat North America was over represented hence Christos.

[vincentric]

After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.

Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)

[g33k]

After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.

Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)

... ??!?

Unless the Warden was OK with having Denarian houseguests.

Just sayin'

[Mira]

Unless the Warden was OK with having Denarian houseguests.

Just sayin'

The island didn't have a Warden at that time, only Alfred.  It was doing it's best with psychic vibs to keep people off the island and the defenses that kept the actual prison hidden.  That is why Alfred was so relieved when Harry came along and unwittingly bonded with it, thus becoming it's Warden.

[Melriken]

After a rereading of SF, I have to conclude that there was no Warden over Demonreach at the time.

Otherwise, six Denarians wouldn't have been able to set up shop there for 2-3 days without the White Council showing up. I can't believe that the island doesn't have some way to alert the warden of an invasion by powerful mystic forces who are setting up a camp for an prolonged stay. (At minimum, the time it takes to break Ivy.)

If Fortier was the warden at that time he likely had issued standing orders to Alfred to keep people away from the island but without violating the laws of magic, so the feeling wasn't strong enough to drive them away, just to make them avoid if reasonable, and otherwise to not interact with people showing up.

We know from Cold Days that the Island doesn't have a way to warn the Warden remotely... so no it couldn't call in a White Council strike team, especially on short notice with the Warden absent from the island.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

This ties in with the absentee warden theory, Fortier may not have been to the island in decades, and Alfred was working to long established protocols.

If he hadn’t visited for decades this would have made it more difficult for Peabody to identify the Warden, especially if Cowl is Nameless. There is a way through Winter to Demonreach used by the Gatekeeper and Maeve (Mab didn’t trust Harry appearing suddenly on the island and she can teleport). Kemmler still held the Wardenship when died (finally?) in 1961 allowing a new Warden to take it on, one of the Senior Council so Fortier  did the ritual and never went back, all before Nameless went into Winter leaving Nameless frustrated not knowing who the new Warden is and subject to Winter Law. Nameless partnered with Kemmler and that connection would explain Nameless knowing about the Warden, the ritual, and about Demonreach’s defences (the latter he was in a position to pass onto Maeve).

Nameless original purpose in seeking asylum in Winter may have originally been to get access to Demonreach which makes me wonder - did he sell out Kemmler to the White Council to get a new Warden appointed, one who Mab wouldn’t block in the NeverNever? Did Nameless have Justin as a sleeper agent with instructions to recover Bob and The Word? We know Peabody was a sleeper agent, and if my theory was correct he was inking the Senior Council to identify and then kill the current Warden. Peabody was the Plan B.

The plot to undermine Winter through Nemesis would have come along later.

Fortier was one of the Senior Council who voted against Harry, did he suspect DuMorne, and this was why DuMorne retired from the Wardens after Kemmler and was worried about Harry’s connection to him? Was that the reason he was absent from Demonreach (or one of them)? Nameless association with Kemmler was known, so Fortier would have known this, and was worried about Nameless being in Winter and refused to use the Winter Short-cut? This actually paints Fortier in a much better light, his distrust of Harry then makes sense, he might have concluded Harry was being prepared as a weapon to assassinate him to free the Wardenship. Was Justin mind-controlling Elaine and then Harry to get them inside the White Council as apprentices under his control in the same way that occurred with the Captain?

[The_Sibelis]

Just reading what's here, I think it's a sham anyway. The warden previous to Harry was Harry.
DR has intellectus, it has trouble separating events in time, someone arrives whom he knows is warden even though it's not the WHEN it's not going to matter to him, here stands Warden.
Follow this with Woj on who sent Shagnasty,"someone who considers him cheap muscle." We now know the Warden can unleash any being in DR under his own Will, as we learned with ethniu. Considering what he can call up, Shagnasty IS cheap muscle to him. Notice how the damage to Thomas is suddenly undone to the point of never being talked about again after a few books? Because next time Dresden went through the timeloop he made sure to cover Thomas with the geas of what shaggy was and wasn't allowed to do. Shaggy knew taking Thomas would hurt both Harry's, if not why. It was his petty revenge for being pawned out. The empty hallow Harry lays in for his recovery, was Shagnasty's. An empty reticle in an otherwise full room seems odd til you consider where the other one went.

[Snark Knight]

Follow this with Woj on who sent Shagnasty,"someone who considers him cheap muscle." We now know the Warden can unleash any being in DR under his own Will, as we learned with ethniu. Considering what he can call up, Shagnasty IS cheap muscle to him.

Given Harry seems to have essentially PTSD from his brush with the skinwalker, I'm not sure how a future version of Harry would end up loaning him out as cheap muscle to anybody. If there came a need to release something, I almost think he'd pick something objectively a bit worse instead, just because of his subjective anything-but-Naagloshii bias.

Mirror universe dark Harry probably wouldn't have the same qualms, though.

[The_Sibelis]

Given Harry seems to have essentially PTSD from his brush with the skinwalker, I'm not sure how a future version of Harry would end up loaning him out as cheap muscle to anybody. If there came a need to release something, I almost think he'd pick something objectively a bit worse instead, just because of his subjective anything-but-Naagloshii bias.

Mirror universe dark Harry probably wouldn't have the same qualms, though.

where'd that bias come from? Not from when he'd never let him out before? Timeloops are particularly funny in the DF, with conservation of history an all.

[Melriken]

This ties in with the absentee warden theory, Fortier may not have been to the island in decades, and Alfred was working to long established protocols.

If he hadn’t visited for decades this would have made it more difficult for Peabody to identify the Warden, especially if Cowl is Nameless

And you lost me...

A bunch of perfectly good Theorizing and then you go and cram in a pet theory...

How does Cowl being Nameless or not being Nameless affect Peabody's ability to identify the Warden who doesn't visit for decades?

Nameless was introduced too late and in a side story, he can't be Cowl.

The empty hallow Harry lays in for his recovery, was Shagnasty's. An empty reticle in an otherwise full room seems odd til you consider where the other one went.

The are no empty hallows, not because Demonreach is full, but because Demonreach grows new ones as needed, and in the unlikely event of a hallow not being needed... it clears them out.

We see Demonreach withdraw the water from trees to get rid of the creatures in the trees, we see a full prison and Harry asks if Demonreach can hold something as big as Ethniu and Alfred says size isn't an issue, so Harry tells him to prepare a cell.  Hallows are created at need and if needed destroyed at need.  There are NEVER empty hallows.  the Hallow Harry was in was Harry's Hallow.  it was created for Harry and not seen later during his recovery because it no longer existed because it was no longer needed.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Because Nameless ensconced himself in Winter, if the Warden has access to a way through Winter to Demonreach and visited regularly Nameless was in the perfect position to identify the Warden and pass that information to Peabody. Because of the absentee warden Peabody had to identify the Warden through less direct means i.e. mind control inks and slips made by the Senior Council under their influence which could take decades.

This presumes that Mab’s Ice Garden in Arctis Tor where those who have displease her are placed in ice crystals for long periods. Merlin and Mab were of course a ‘thing’ so giving Mab the back door key to Demonreach makes sense. If so Harry can easily get from the Winters Knights quarters to the Ice Garden both in Arctis Tor and to Demonreach. If only Harry had access to a fortress staffed by warriors of Winter in the Mortal World he would then be able to forge a safe connection to Demonreach and avoid the tedious but dangerous journeys by boat.

Being stuck in Winter without identifying the Warden must have chapped Nameless ass.

[The_Sibelis]

The are no empty hallows, not because Demonreach is full, but because Demonreach grows new ones as needed, and in the unlikely event of a hallow not being needed... it clears them out.

except the hallow Harry laid in was still empty while he lived on the island. Theorizing is great. Don't tell me mines invalid based on one yours tho. DR didn't withdraw the water of his own cognizants, he understood the thought that went through Harry's head.

[Melriken]

Because Nameless ensconced himself in Winter, if the Warden has access to a way through Winter to Demonreach and visited regularly Nameless was in the perfect position to identify the Warden and pass that information to Peabody.

Winter is a BIG place... I believe winter is bigger than the surface of the Earth...

IF the Warden has access to a way through Winter, AND the Warden uses it... Nameless would be less likely to catch him then Peabody who at least was at the same starting point...