Author Topic: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...  (Read 9810 times)

Offline vincentric

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2023, 03:35:08 PM »
Nameless is not one of Marcone's confidantes, he's an employee. And Nameless, despite being a rebel by nature, is also a denizen of the supernatural world where proper etiquette is a key component of all interactions. No matter what he may think, I'm sure he addresses Marcone as Baron, otherwise it'd be akin to a challenge.

Harry's familiarity with others has caused him no end of trouble, Nameless knows to avoid this.

Offline Lord Kinbote

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2023, 03:44:07 PM »
So we should assume that Mouse now knows Cowl's scent, and that Cowl isn't anyone that Mouse has met before else he would have recognized Cowl in this story.  That should narrow the list of suspects.

Apropos to maybe nothing, but has Mouse met the Gatekeeper?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2023, 04:04:04 PM »
Nameless is not one of Marcone's confidantes, he's an employee. And Nameless, despite being a rebel by nature, is also a denizen of the supernatural world where proper etiquette is a key component of all interactions. No matter what he may think, I'm sure he addresses Marcone as Baron, otherwise it'd be akin to a challenge.

Harry's familiarity with others has caused him no end of trouble, Nameless knows to avoid this.

The point is that Nameless is arrogance cubed, of course he thinks he could take liberties with vanilla mortal Marcone, he doesn’t know about the coin. Plus Nameless is a Demi-God of Discord, he can’t help himself, despite his planning and everything it’s an impulse control thing ,its why despite knowing better he is trying to take a pop at Harry. Harry has go under his skin.

Offline vincentric

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2023, 11:17:51 PM »
Marcone wouldn't let an employee take liberties. It's not done in either criminal or supernatural circles. And don't think he wouldn't push the issue. He held his ground against Ethniu, Nameless would get one warning then be fired and reported to Mab as unsuitable.

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3933
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2023, 02:22:53 AM »
So we should assume that Mouse now knows Cowl's scent, and that Cowl isn't anyone that Mouse has met before else he would have recognized Cowl in this story.  That should narrow the list of suspects.

Apropos to maybe nothing, but has Mouse met the Gatekeeper?


I haven't got to the new one yet, but Zoo Day dropped a pretty heavy cluebat that it was Cowl and Kumori who originally stole Mouse and the rest of his litter from the monastery. So Cowl may be as cautious about disguising his scent - at least, around Foo Dogs - as he is about his appearance.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4255
  • Oh no, there goes Tokyo
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2023, 02:47:54 AM »
Because he is paranoid about keeping his identity secret and thus leaving his fingerprints everywhere? In a City where the cops are better clued in than normal? In addition, his cowl is enspelled like Harry’s Duster, so presumably it (and the gloves) provides further protection as to his identity his aura could not be ascertained by Lea for example.

Here’s a thought, Cowl would have been around when Colin Murphy killed himself, but Colin ended up working for Uriel. Did Colin inadvertently put someone’s finger prints in the system CPD, FBI etc he shouldn’t have, and the Library of Congress have them?

If he was burned then would have been many years before, if Harry was born in 1974, he would have been 16 in 1990 when Justin burned. It is now 24 years later, and Cowl is even more powerful than Harry, with a a stronger healing factor, so he should have healed in the nearly quarter of a century since Justin went up given Harry’s progression since his own injury.

Of course Cowl could just be a habitual nail biter and his mother is trying to break him of the habit. “He’s not The Master Of The Future, he’s a very naughty boy!”

Because he is aware that Harry ticks off Marcone by calling him John? Which he would know working for Marcone.

This isn't to contradict anything you said but I noticed something in Dead Bead that I find interesting and applies to Cowl wearing a glove, or is it gloves?  In Grave Peril there's no mention of Bianca's assistants wearing gloves, they're just kind of hidden from view by their costumes.  However, in Dead Beat we have two statements made when Harry first meets Cowl outside of the bookstore.  The first is when Cowl gets fed up with Harry and throws power at him.  "Dorosh," he snarled in reply, and extended his right hand."   The second statement was made after Harry flipped the car on top of Cowl and the necromancer came out from underneath it. "As he straightened he wavered, then braced himself against a streetlight with one black-gloved hand."  And then in the short story Fugitive, Cowl raises a "gloved hand, in a salute" to the Nemean lion.

You may notice that it is never stated that Cowl wears gloves on both hands.  A gloved hand isn't mentioned when Cowl raises his hand to throw power at Harry, just that Cowl raised his hand.  Here's what I think is going on.  Jim knew that he wanted to keep Cowl's true identity a secret and thought of a clever way to misdirect his readers.  Harry wears a glove on his left hand after getting burned in Blood Rites.  Jim wants some of his crazier, though clever, readers to think that Cowl is future Harry.  Even Cowl's title of "Master of the Future" plays into this idea.  This tinfoil hat hypothesis has been posted on this forum, on Reddit and YouTube.  There are a lot of people who like it, but it's too obvious for my taste.  I think Jim has setup "Cowl is future Harry" as a red herring to throw some of his readers off Cowl's actual identity.

Also, according to the official Dresden Files timeline, Dead Beat takes place about 5 years after Storm Front and Battle Ground about 14 years after Storm Front, so Cowl has been wearing gloves or a glove for at least nine years.  Shouldn't any scars Cowl's hiding be healing up pretty good by now?  Is Harry even wearing a glove on his left hand any longer?  I'm not sure.  Jim may purposely not be mentioning this detail of Harry's appearance any longer, in order to keep the confusion going.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Groucho Marx

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2023, 03:07:35 AM »
He wasn’t hired through Mab, Nameless is still Winter but probably arranged to meet Marcone in a social situation before signing on with him on his own initiative. Marcone is Chairman of the Chicago Historical and Art Society (in Dead Beat Marcone choose some choice art from Bony Tony’s find) we know this through Death Masks a rich man’s club. A wealthy lawyer would fit right in, we know from the Law Nameless collects artifacts in his office so that would likely be where Nameless would make his approach through Marcone’s hobby before establishing his chops with the Cancer Charity thing. Hell his plan may have been for Marcone to approach him after watching him for a couple of years, Marcone does not make major decisions without considering every angle, and recruiting a supernatural lawyer not through Monoc? At that point “John” would have become Mr Marcone, and warned as such. We know though that Marcone hired Nameless after Small Favour, he might have felt he had an Ace in the Hole with Namshiel and could finally take the risk. Gard would have had to be overruled on that hire.

Yes Cowl did engage the Sorceror who stole the litter, that and setting up Mavra in Chicago to lure Harry in were his contributions to Death Masks (he likely called in the favour gained in Grave Peril as Harry had been engaged to track down the puppies a couple of weeks earlier). As regards scent, what Mouse tracks appears to be more than just normal scent,  so the capability of being able to mask that may be problematic.

As pointed out Dresden uses mundane means as well as magical (Vince Graver springs to mind) so fingerprints are the obvious reason, and I have dealt with burned Justin as Cowl by pointing out that 24 years have passed, plenty of time to heal and the same for future Harry. The gloves may also be a countermeasure against his ‘scent’ rubbing off on things he touches, or Ash’s ‘scent’ rubbing off on him.


Offline KurtinStGeorge

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4255
  • Oh no, there goes Tokyo
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2023, 04:21:07 AM »
  Interesting, good to see Cowl again, he has a title is seems, "Master of the Future."  I take that to mean in the BAT this is who Harry will be fighting, among others.  It also looks like he is trying to take Harry out while he is emotionally and somewhat physically vulnerable.  He also has serious connections if he can spring a monster from Hades. Also an interesting tidbit, Cowl says there are four powers in Chicago who could take the Nemean Lion out, wonder if meant himself as well?  Apparently Mouse is one of them, at least he managed to kick Cowl's ass.. Harry, yes, when he is fully himself again. Lara? No doubt, and that may be why Mab wants that marriage so badly.. And though Michael is retired, the Holy Knights, i.e. Butters also lives there. 

Back to Cowl, no real light was shed on who he is, clearly though he is from the future or is a "Master of the Future," he is mortal, or has the same vulnerabilities of an ordinary man, after Mouse shattered his staff, he nearly bit his arm off...  Mouse and Cerberus, very good dogs indeed..

I'm going to address the second part I highlighted, first.  Harry figured out that Cowl is a mortal human back in Dead Beat.  Here are the relevant quotes:
"Cowl was strong, but his magic wasn't inhuman." ... "The point being that Cowl wasn't some kind of demon. He was a wizard. Human.
And, behind the magic, just as fragile as me."


Who are the four powers in Chicago who could banish the Nemean lion back to Hades?  If Molly hasn't left to go perform Winter Lady duties, she would certainly be one power who could do it.  I'm pretty sure Harry could do it, though he might not know how to do it.  Would Cowl know that Mouse could banish the Nemean Lion?  Maybe, but maybe not.  The necromancer would have had to gather some solid intel on Harry to learn that Mouse is a Foo Dog.  Perhaps he did, but we don't know with certainty.  The last power; that I know of, who could do it would be Marcone, with help from Thorned Namshiel.  Again, this assumes Cowl knows Marcone is carrying one of the tainted coins.  I think it's a good bet that Cowl could learn this because of the huge hint that Harry dropped about it during the meeting the supernatural powers held after the Battle of Chicago.  Word would get around or could be had for a price.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Groucho Marx

Offline KurtinStGeorge

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 4255
  • Oh no, there goes Tokyo
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2023, 04:35:18 AM »
He wasn’t hired through Mab, Nameless is still Winter but probably arranged to meet Marcone in a social situation before signing on with him on his own initiative. Marcone is Chairman of the Chicago Historical and Art Society (in Dead Beat Marcone choose some choice art from Bony Tony’s find) we know this through Death Masks a rich man’s club. A wealthy lawyer would fit right in, we know from the Law Nameless collects artifacts in his office so that would likely be where Nameless would make his approach through Marcone’s hobby before establishing his chops with the Cancer Charity thing. Hell his plan may have been for Marcone to approach him after watching him for a couple of years, Marcone does not make major decisions without considering every angle, and recruiting a supernatural lawyer not through Monoc? At that point “John” would have become Mr Marcone, and warned as such. We know though that Marcone hired Nameless after Small Favour, he might have felt he had an Ace in the Hole with Namshiel and could finally take the risk. Gard would have had to be overruled on that hire.

Yes Cowl did engage the Sorceror who stole the litter, that and setting up Mavra in Chicago to lure Harry in were his contributions to Death Masks (he likely called in the favour gained in Grave Peril as Harry had been engaged to track down the puppies a couple of weeks earlier). As regards scent, what Mouse tracks appears to be more than just normal scent,  so the capability of being able to mask that may be problematic.

As pointed out Dresden uses mundane means as well as magical (Vince Graver springs to mind) so fingerprints are the obvious reason, and I have dealt with burned Justin as Cowl by pointing out that 24 years have passed, plenty of time to heal and the same for future Harry. The gloves may also be a countermeasure against his ‘scent’ rubbing off on things he touches, or Ash’s ‘scent’ rubbing off on him.

Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

Groucho Marx

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2023, 04:59:00 AM »
The only problem with that is the Justin would have had to be working with Kemmler at the same time he was a Warden.

And that Jim has said he is dead.DED


Maybe cowl is not only a wizard - he's an undead one. Black Court wizard...

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24358
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2023, 12:03:48 PM »


  The title Master of the Future can mean more than one thing.  It could mean in Tin Foil Hat fashion that Cowl is the future Harry.  I don't think so because his height isn't mentioned.  If Cowl was as tall as Harry is, I believe it would be noted, the only one who's height is mentioned on a regular basis aside from Harry, is Rashid.  And no, I don't think Cowl is Rashid.  It is possible that Cowl can travel in time, but just because he gives himself the title of Master of the Future, doesn't mean that he is the master of it.  Nor does it mean he is from the future, but he thinks he will be the master of it. 

Offline vincentric

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 582
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2023, 03:53:33 PM »
Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.

Don't bother, the entire first section is his own personal fanfic. We have no idea how Marcone met Nameless. Or why the way Cowl says "Harry is a PITA" rather than "Dresden is a PITA" on seeing Mouse means that he calls Marcone, John. I guess if Nameless really is Cowl, contrary to WoJ that we had seen his alter ego long before "The Law" was ever dreamed up, then it would be. However, Nameless does not refer to Marcone by any Name during their one shared scene. No one present is named by any other attendee.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2023, 08:51:27 PM »
Your posts about Nameless are forcing me to reread The Law again.

They are forcing me to re-read EVERYTHING.

Vincentric we know from The Law when in the time-line Nameless was engaged by Marcone, we know from Mab he was suspected of involvement in Arctis Tor and we know he also has a substantive connection to Kemmler. Those are huge. This is the only individual other than Harry with connections to  both Kemmler and Winter, and so much of Cowls plans have involved undermining Winter or Mab’s Accords. That isn’t fanfic, neither is Marcone’s paranoia, he tried to recruit Harry only after watching him carefully for a couple of years, he would treat Nameless in a similar fashion. Going up to Marcone and offering your services is not the way to gain even the barest sliver of trust from Marcone. He recruits you, so all you can do to get his attention is move in the same circles and do your thing.

Offline EBRIEN

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2023, 06:32:47 PM »
I get the feeling the Cowl is Harry--Mirror Harry. He's got a magical duster (his Cloak and cowl) and a dog--Mouse's shadow. Feels kinda obvious to me for whatever reason. And Nameless is just Nameless.

Nope. I don't have any evidence to back any of it up. Just my gut...which has been wrong before. lol

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24358
    • View Profile
Re: Master of the Future? The Fugitive...
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2023, 07:31:57 PM »
I get the feeling the Cowl is Harry--Mirror Harry. He's got a magical duster (his Cloak and cowl) and a dog--Mouse's shadow. Feels kinda obvious to me for whatever reason. And Nameless is just Nameless.

Nope. I don't have any evidence to back any of it up. Just my gut...which has been wrong before. lol

Naw, Cowl is too short.