How much information does the WC have

[Mira]

The island seems to have limited initiative, and most of the high-powered defenses need the Warden to activate them.

 Very true, before Harry became it's Warden, the island appeared to rely on psychic attacks on would be human inhabitants.  That is why the attempts to inhabit it failed, however we have no clue as to how vulnerable the island was to non-human and supernatural forces.  It does need a Warden to fully implement all defenses, remember Alfred's great relief to have a Warden again.  Why? Because there are defenses that it cannot handle on it's own. These defenses apparently are complex, it took Harry a whole year to learn them, at a time when he basically had no other tasks while he was isolated on the island before Skin Game.  Merlin's logic as to why he set up the island's defenses like this in the first place, given it's inmates, has yet to be revealed.

[g33k]

... These defenses apparently are complex, it took Harry a whole year to learn them, at a time when he basically had no other tasks while he was isolated on the island before Skin Game ...

I thought he was doing a few other things... didn't he use wood from the island to make a new staff?

  Merlin's logic as to why he set up the island's defenses like this in the first place, given it's inmates, has yet to be revealed.

I think that you need a living person to make intelligent, intuitive decisions, to be adaptable.

A spell is a relatively fixed thing; anything nailed down that way is unable to adjust or adapt.  Sooner or later the BadGuys^(tm) would figure out a weakness to exploit.

[Ed0517]

Mostly, it depends.


SG-Harry wouldn't have been bluffing ... on the island, it's likely he really could have taken a bunch of Warden hardcases and SC members, all at once.

If they came after him one at a time, like a Bruce Lee movie, sure. Alfred could take out the whole White council. But can he target multiple targets at once? We don't really know that.  When he fought Lara and Freydis on the island, he didn't ever target both at the same time. He bound Lara in the grass. Then he swatted Freydis with a tree. Lara pulled free, Harry put her in quicksand. Freydis came on, Harry sank her too. One at a time. The hardcases may not be able to hurt Alfred, but they could Harry. Alfred can protect him against any - but all? We don't know yet

[g33k]

If they came after him one at a time, like a Bruce Lee movie, sure. Alfred could take out the whole White council. But can he target multiple targets at once? We don't really know that.  When he fought Lara and Freydis on the island, he didn't ever target both at the same time. He bound Lara in the grass. Then he swatted Freydis with a tree. Lara pulled free, Harry put her in quicksand. Freydis came on, Harry sank her too. One at a time. The hardcases may not be able to hurt Alfred, but they could Harry. Alfred can protect him against any - but all? We don't know yet

As things stand now, I think we do:  Harry stated as simple fact that -- with the island's defenses on-tap -- he could have shut down the entire Outsider-assault on the island, without allies or other assistance; and that was a massive assault with multiple entities involved (including one of the Walkers).
 
 

[Ed0517]

As things stand now, I think we do:  Harry stated as simple fact that -- with the island's defenses on-tap -- he could have shut down the entire Outsider-assault on the island, without allies or other assistance; and that was a massive assault with multiple entities involved (including one of the Walkers).

and we know that isn't simply a keep-out dome like the one Molly used on the island already? Could be an offshoot of that research - Harry does shields well,

[g33k]

and we know that isn't simply a keep-out dome like the one Molly used on the island already? Could be an offshoot of that research - Harry does shields well,

yeah...NO.  It's the island's defenses, not derived from anything of Harry's or Molly's.  Harry was very specific about that near the beginning of Skin Game (reviewing his options as he went down to meet Mab on the dock).

I suppose it *could* be a "simple keep-out dome" -- there were no details -- but Harry used the term "defenses" (implying an array of methods & tools) rather than saying "shield" or "ward" or the like.

[Mira]

yeah...NO.  It's the island's defenses, not derived from anything of Harry's or Molly's.  Harry was very specific about that near the beginning of Skin Game (reviewing his options as he went down to meet Mab on the dock).

I suppose it *could* be a "simple keep-out dome" -- there were no details -- but Harry used the term "defenses" (implying an array of methods & tools) rather than saying "shield" or "ward" or the like.

I agree with that, I also think that full array of defenses is known only to Alfred and it's Warden. 

[Tinfoil hat]

I agree with that, I also think that full array of defenses is known only to Alfred and the warden
Not sure, the warden does. Alferd seems to be able to keep things from harry. Harry realizes this at the end of BG

[Mira]

I agree with that, I also think that full array of defenses is known only to Alfred and the warden
Not sure, the warden does. Alferd seems to be able to keep things from harry. Harry realizes this at the end of BG

  But not defenses..

[Ed0517]

yeah...NO.  It's the island's defenses, not derived from anything of Harry's or Molly's.  Harry was very specific about that near the beginning of Skin Game (reviewing his options as he went down to meet Mab on the dock).

I suppose it *could* be a "simple keep-out dome" -- there were no details -- but Harry used the term "defenses" (implying an array of methods & tools) rather than saying "shield" or "ward" or the like.

If you set your defense and they can't break it, there's no rush to target multiple individuals at once. Area effects work.

If you can dome out to the shore, the magic users are out over water. That doesn't help them. If you can, have the equivalent of murder holes to attack out.  The magical equivalent of mines released. Greek fire. If not for the question of suborning will - maybe some of the prisoners are aquatic. Fight for me, maybe get a parole. Claymores on the land - how would the fae react to the BBs? layered defenses. But when Harry faced the SC - he was right in front of them, and they were within these perimeter defenses. You let them in close, harder to defend. They get close, even some guy with only half of one hand can set a booby trap and almost get you.

[vincentric]

Just the abilities he demonstrated in PT would have been enough to stave off the Senior Council and Wardens.

Being instantly buried 3 feet under the ground would probably take out most of the Wardens and would have slowed all but EB and LtW severely. He could then take them out using hit and run tactics because he'd always know their exact locations while they would have to search for him though actively hostile terrain.

[Ed0517]

Just the abilities he demonstrated in PT would have been enough to stave off the Senior Council and Wardens.

Being instantly buried 3 feet under the ground would probably take out most of the Wardens and would have slowed all but EB and LtW severely. He could then take them out using hit and run tactics because he'd always know their exact locations while they would have to search for him though actively hostile terrain.

That was against two who, in open combat, he beats easily even in Chicago. Lara lost it. Whamps are not someone who can attack a wizard at a distance and close to hand to hand. Being on Demonreach meant he could do it casually, and subdue them without hurting them.  And two, not 7 or 8, all more powerful than those two. If he attacks the Wardens, LtW and Eb open up, and who knows what Mai may be able to do? And the sinking in the ground - why do we assume LtW is the only shapeshifter? And it would only take one Warden to escape, then when you are against LtW and Eb, both better than you - they get you. Maybe he could face off against them - though the Blackstaff, I don't know. But far from proven.

[Mira]

That was against two who, in open combat, he beats easily even in Chicago. Lara lost it. Whamps are not someone who can attack a wizard at a distance and close to hand to hand. Being on Demonreach meant he could do it casually, and subdue them without hurting them.  And two, not 7 or 8, all more powerful than those two. If he attacks the Wardens, LtW and Eb open up, and who knows what Mai may be able to do? And the sinking in the ground - why do we assume LtW is the only shapeshifter? And it would only take one Warden to escape, then when you are against LtW and Eb, both better than you - they get you. Maybe he could face off against them - though the Blackstaff, I don't know. But far from proven.

   I doubt that it would be as you describe now that there is a Warden in charge and Alfred can fully engage the island defenses.  It is a maximum security prison, Merlin designed it most likely to secure it from beings a lot more powerful and bad assed than either Eb or LTW..

[Tinfoil hat]

It

   I doubt that it would be as you describe now that there is a Warden in charge and Alfred can fully engage the island defenses.  It is a maximum security prison, Merlin designed it most likely to secure it from beings a lot more powerful and bad assed than either Eb or LTW..

It doesn't matter how strong Alfred Demonreach is. You have to pay the Man in this case Harry the Warden.
Ltw and Eb know this, Harry himself knows this. And he has used this to beat things and people stronger than him. Open combat does nnot mean fair. On the island, Eb is the key to the fight. If Harry needed to be put down, im sure Eb can talk him down so the other can stab or him in the back

[Mira]

ItIt doesn't matter how strong Alfred Demonreach is. You have to pay the Man in this case Harry the Warden.
Ltw and Eb know this, Harry himself knows this. And he has used this to beat things and people stronger than him. Open combat does nnot mean fair. On the island, Eb is the key to the fight. If Harry needed to be put down, im sure Eb can talk him down so the other can stab or him in the back

You are still thinking in terms of a one on one fight, it won't happen like that on the island.  Remember in Turn Coat?  The island was without a Warden at that point, or just as well be
because Harry had no clue at that point that he now was it's Warden.  Anyway, the Senior Council approached it with upmost care, because they were aware of what the island could do even without a Warden.  I don't believe it was just that they feared the Way to it.