Why is Mab trying to change Harry?

[g33k]

I think that depends on what was promised to her.  Just a tin foil hat thought, but what if Bianca
was infected?  I don't remember it saying that vampires are excluded from infection.. Not saying that it does and I missed it..   ...

I don't see that it matters to a Nemesis-agent what was promised to Bianca: she's too unreliable, not trustworthy.  I suspect she was -- in part -- directed to engage Harry and neutralize him (turned, Ramp-addicted & enslaved, or dead) as part of a test, to see if she did have the power & finesse to handle a powerful (if young) White Council wizard.  Remember Ortega's role as an "observer" -- both to witness violations under the Accords, but also I suspect to study Bianca's suitability.

OTOH -- borrowing your tinfoil to don a hat of my own -- if Bianca was Nemfected, then she becomes "trustworthy" and could surely have been a trusted avenue to further Nemfection!

I don't see that we have any real "information" either confirming or denying that Ramps are/aren't subject to Nemfection, however (nor whether Bianca herself was/wasn't).  One could read the text and find passages to ascribe such meanings to... but that opens the door to almost anything.

FWIW, I'll re-mention my own WAG -- every bit as tinfoiled as yours (if not moreso)! -- that the Lords of Outer Night are somehow related to the beings at the Outer Gates.

[Mira]

I don't see that it matters to a Nemesis-agent what was promised to Bianca: she's too unreliable, not trustworthy.

 Not promised, infected.. There is a difference.

[g33k]

Not promised, infected.. There is a difference.

Indeed!  And I addressed that, later... largely agreeing with you.  Yeah, I think Nemfection would assure loyalty to Nemesis' cause!

But I was responding to your own up-front phrasing:  "I think that depends on what was promised to her."  Nemesis would suffice; "promises" would not.

Ortega, I think, was pure-Ramp, ignorant of Nemesis' presence.  He was checking Bianca to make sure she was worthy of the honors she had received, and evaluating her for future & higher elevation.

Mavra & Cowl are the likely ones to be Nemesis agents, at that party.

[Mira]

Not promised, infected.. There is a difference. [/quote

Indeed!  And I addressed that, later... largely agreeing with you.  Yeah, I think Nemfection would assure loyalty to Nemesis' cause!

But I was responding to your own up-front phrasing:  "I think that depends on what was promised to her."  Nemesis would suffice; "promises" would not.

Ortega, I think, was pure-Ramp, ignorant of Nemesis' presence.  He was checking Bianca to make sure she was worthy of the honors she had received, and evaluating her for future & higher elevation.

Mavra & Cowl are the likely ones to be Nemesis agents, at that party.

  You need to fix your quote box..  Bianca may not even be aware that she is infected and being used.

[g33k]

You need to fix your quote box..

Yeah, I had a WTF moment reading it myself!    Sorry 'bout that.   

Bianca may not even be aware that she is infected and being used.

  That's an interesting thought.  I think we see that in late-stage Nemfection, the victim is usually aware of the possession; but maybe not always:  it isn't at all clear to me that Maeve understood this.  But it's entirely possible -- much as early-Shadow Harry had worse anger issues, but no communication/awareness of the "Shadow" entity -- that early-Nemfection victims are similarly unaware, while still being subject to the Nemfection urges/prompting.

[Mira]

That's an interesting thought.  I think we see that in late-stage Nemfection, the victim is usually aware of the possession; but maybe not always:  it isn't at all clear to me that Maeve understood this.  But it's entirely possible -- much as early-Shadow Harry had worse anger issues, but no communication/awareness of the "Shadow" entity -- that early-Nemfection victims are similarly unaware, while still being subject to the Nemfection urges/prompting.

  And that may vary on the susceptibility of it's intended victim.  Lea for example became aware of it soon enough to do something about it.  She confessed to Mab and took the cure, and was cured, as far as we know at any rate.  I say the latter because Jim may change his mind at any moment. Maeve was more susceptible perhaps because of her "mommy" issues, in the beginning neither she nor Mab were aware, and by the time she was, it was too late.  If Mab was infected, [she did have the Knife on her belt for a time,] she either became aware very early on, or took precautions when she realized Lea was infected and entered treatment when Lea did.  That's why I think anyway we see her in ice along side of Lea in Proven Guilty.  I don't think she was just hiding, if she wasn't infected she was doing preventive care on herself.  So infection by Nemesis can act sort of like COVID, ten people can catch it but the effects can range from asymptomatic to death with ten degrees of symptoms in between..   Or addiction, in it's early stages an addict isn't really aware that he or she is becoming addicted until they are..

[g33k]

...  She confessed to Mab and took the cure, and was cured, as far as we know at any rate ...

I don't think Lea is entirely cured, no.
I think she's more like an addict, counting up her days/weeks/months/years clean and sober; but highly-vulnerable to relapse.

[Mira]

I don't think Lea is entirely cured, no.
I think she's more like an addict, counting up her days/weeks/months/years clean and sober; but highly-vulnerable to relapse.

Yeah, that is why I left it as an open question depending on the whim of Jim.. One wonders as well if Mab is also fully cured?  I can foresee a real "oh crap" moment in the BAT when Mab reveals that she has been infected all along and was waiting for the right moment to pounce.  As I said, Mab did wear the Knife on her belt for a time.

[forumghost]

Tbh I feel like if Nemesis could have gotten to Mab the fight would be over by now, she's probably one of the beings on the "too big for Nenesis to infect" list.

[Mira]

Tbh I feel like if Nemesis could have gotten to Mab the fight would be over by now, she's probably one of the beings on the "too big for Nenesis to infect" list.

I don't think the fight would be over if Nemesis got Mab now..

[forumghost]

I don't think the fight would be over if Nemesis got Mab now..

Except it totally would, because Nemesis!Mab wouldn't be doing things like sending Harry to stop Nemesis from blowing up North America and unleashing an army of Demons and Fallen Gods and what-not.

[Mira]

Except it totally would, because Nemesis!Mab wouldn't be doing things like sending Harry to stop Nemesis from blowing up North America and unleashing an army of Demons and Fallen Gods and what-not.

 But even an infected Mab can be killed, even if it is only one day a year.. Or an infected Mab can be lured to the island and jailed.. It would be bad, yes, but the opposition isn't without tools to fight her.

[Ed0517]

But even an infected Mab can be killed, even if it is only one day a year.. Or an infected Mab can be lured to the island and jailed.. It would be bad, yes, but the opposition isn't without tools to fight her.

Agreed. And Harry could call out Ethnieu, who is shown to be more powerful, and have Ethnieu bring her back to a cell. Possibly Vadderrung too.

[vincentric]

I highly doubt that anything short of the Mothers could stop a Nemfected Mab.

[g33k]

I highly doubt that anything short of the Mothers could stop a Nemfected Mab.

I suspect Mother Winter could just take back the Queen-Mantle.