How was “the Well” on Demonreach filled with inmates?

[SerScot]

I didn’t link to Wikipedia.  Superior is much deeper than the other Great Lakes because it’s formation is different from the other Great Lakes.  Heck the far western shoreline of Lake Superior is lava fields because of the rifting that formed it.  That isn’t true for Michigan/Superior because they are glacial remnants.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I didn’t say you did, you linked to a local magazine website for Lake Superior which puffs Lake Superior. Link to peer reviewed academic papers covering both lakes  if you want to prove your point. Normally Wikipedia settles things, but in this case it doesn’t as it is silent, so it is still appears to be a matter of academic debate.

in Dresdenverse the ley lines have been important to the plot for  Dead Beat, Changes and Cold Days so their disruption or re-alignment are key to destroying Demonreach. The ley lines locally erupt from Demonreach and appear to have been created by the Merlin. They link into the local network and presumably provide an anchor/ grounding for it. Cutting that anchor would leave Demonreach vulnerable. Only a Dragon could do that - it was intimated in Peace Talks/Battle Ground. I bet the Dragons originally created the Ley line network either by accident or deliberation.

This makes me wonder about Sirriothrax and the two different versions we get of his death. The swords are powerful enough to kill a Dragon, but what was that Dragon doing to warrant the intervention of the White God? Extruding itself too much into the mortal realm? Was Cowl active even then more than a dozen years before Storm Front? Dragons are immortal so Michael couldn’t have killed it properly  except on Halloween, all he could have done is disperse it, and it would have eventually have coalesced back into a physical form. Perhaps initially an egg? Could that be what Cowl gifted to Ferro, the coalescing egg of Sirriothrax? Could Tunguska have been a previous dispersal of Sirriothrax reconciling the two apparent deaths? Morgan nuked a Naagloshii and it came back. Could the Tunguska incident actually be Grey Council not White Council?

Now that egg may be in Ferro’s vault, sitting on a ley line and growing, getting ready to hatch.

[SerScot]

I didn’t say you did, you linked to a local magazine website for Lake Superior which puffs Lake Superior. Link to peer reviewed academic papers covering both lakes  if you want to prove your point. Normally Wikipedia settles things, but in this case it doesn’t as it is silent, so it is still appears to be a matter of academic debate.

in Dresdenverse the ley lines have been important to the plot for  Dead Beat, Changes and Cold Days so their disruption or re-alignment are key to destroying Demonreach. The ley lines locally erupt from Demonreach and appear to have been created by the Merlin. They link into the local network and presumably provide an anchor/ grounding for it. Cutting that anchor would leave Demonreach vulnerable. Only a Dragon could do that - it was intimated in Peace Talks/Battle Ground. I bet the Dragons originally created the Ley line network either by accident or deliberation.

This makes me wonder about Sirriothrax and the two different versions we get of his death. The swords are powerful enough to kill a Dragon, but what was that Dragon doing to warrant the intervention of the White God? Extruding itself too much into the mortal realm? Was Cowl active even then more than a dozen years before Storm Front? Dragons are immortal so Michael couldn’t have killed it properly  except on Halloween, all he could have done is disperse it, and it would have eventually have coalesced back into a physical form. Perhaps initially an egg? Could that be what Cowl gifted to Ferro, the coalescing egg of Sirriothrax? Could Tunguska have been a previous dispersal of Sirriothrax reconciling the two apparent deaths? Morgan nuked a Naagloshii and it came back. Could the Tunguska incident actually be Grey Council not White Council?

Now that egg may be in Ferro’s vault, sitting on a ley line and growing, getting ready to hatch.

Here’s a link to a more “scholarly” article on the geology of the entire Great Lakes Region:

https://museum.mtu.edu/sites/default/files/2019-11/AESMM_Web_Pub_1_Great_Lakes_Geology_0.pdf

From the article:

The glaciers carved out the basins that are now occupied by the Great Lakes (11). The less competent rocks tend to be more easily scoured and result in valleys. This is especially true for Lake Superior which mimics the shape of the Midcontinent rift (Figure 2). The center of the rift was filled with less competent sedimentary rocks, such as siltstone and fine-grained sandstone, whereas on the margin are the more competent dipping lava flow or to the north older Archean basement. Thus, by preferentially scouring out the less competent rocks, the glaciers left behind a horseshoe shaped Lake Superior.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

“Especially true for Lake Superior”

[SerScot]

“Especially true for Lake Superior”

Because Lake Superior is where the rifting was taking place… not Southern Lake Michigan.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Because Lake Superior is where the rifting was taking place… not Southern Lake Michigan.

Actually according to Fig 2  the Mezoprotozoic rifting took place on three sides of Lake Michigan and the Grenville Techtonic front runs parallel to Lake Michigan which is between it and Superior, it’s bedrock is also geologically more recent than Superior. There have been multiple geological events in the Great Lakes Basin
Which resulted in the current formation, so seeking to ascribe a particular feature to just a single event would appear to be pointless. The whole region has be geologically active for a considerable period.

[SerScot]

Actually according to Fig 2  the Mezoprotozoic rifting took place on three sides of Lake Michigan and the Grenville Techtonic front runs parallel to Lake Michigan which is between it and Superior, it’s bedrock is also geologically more recent than Superior. There have been multiple geological events in the Great Lakes Basin
Which resulted in the current formation, so seeking to ascribe a particular feature to just a single event would appear to be pointless. The whole region has be geologically active for a considerable period.

The point I’m trying to make is that the rifting was well north of where Butcher has Demonreach placed.  Lake Michigan around Demonreach (where Demonreach purports to be) is not the formerly geologically active part of the region.  That the UP of Michigan, Northern Wisconsin, and North Eastern Minnesota.  Geologically all Demonreach could be is a lens of very hard rock that survived the most recent glaciation and was tall enough to be partially above water in the current Geological epoch.

[Ed0517]

Why do we presume Merlin or the Dragons created the ley line network around Demonreach? Maybe the network was not created by Merlin when he built the jail, maybe Merlin built the jail here BECAUSE the ley lines were here. Like founding New York because there was a good harbor there. They didn't build the harbor.  They wanted to settle, and decided "This harbor looks good. We'll go here". Merlin sees Lake Michigan as a moat, defuses a lot of the magic of someone approaching. Has ley lines as a power source.
Looks like a good building site!

I'm not sure Michael could not kill Siriothrax - heck, in later cases, he seems to think that maybe it could kill Nic. He's more aggressive with Nic, less defensive. Nic can be killed by the Noose. Divinely endowed? Siriothrax may be immortal to HUMAN weapons, but the Swords are divine.

Do we know that Naag came back from the A bomb? I was assuming they are not immortal, just semi-immortal, and it might be a fission bomb is enough.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Swords can’t kill the Fallen only the hosts. The noose protects Nick, not Anduriel. The Fallen can heal their host and can stem the ravages of time.

If immortals were so easy to kill Demonreach wouldn’t exist. We know:-

1. All immortals can be killed on Halloween (immortals do not like this to be known)
2. The Faerie Queens can be killed on the Stone Table
3. Repeated blasts from the Eye of Baelor can kill an immortal, probably by breaking reality in relation to them and their immortality.

Indeed there is no reason for Michael not to think that he killed Sirriothrax rather than disincorporate him, Harry only finds out about killing immortals in Summer Knight because Bob found out this information and had to flee Winter. Ferro isn’t going to set him straight and it may explain why he was so forgiving of Michael in GP he knew Sirriothrax had only been disincorporated and not killed or imprisoned in Demonreach, and would be back. Michael is less clued into the supernatural than Harry, so he wouldn’t know.

Not all the Fae or monsters The Knights deal with are immortal, they are ageless or long lived, durable but not immortal. The Swords can kill them no problem. For an immortal like Ethnui they can injure or discorporate her if they can get in sufficient blows to their physical form, like nuking a Naagloshii the swords are that powerful. Not so sure about the Faithsaber though it may require less blows than then other swords to discorporate an immortal, it can do far more damage spiritually and may make the period to reincorporate much longer but they would eventually return.

The Faithsaber versus the Fallen would be interesting, is the Faithsaber enough into the spiritual now to disincorporate a Fallen if it were to bisect a coin? Cutting them loose from their coin? The coins were impervious to physical damage presumably even the swords in their material form couldn’t harm them so they couldn’t be disincorporated.

[morriswalters]

We saw how difficult it was to get Ethniu into the Well.  We saw how difficult it was for Harry to fight Shagnasty… how did the inmates on Demonreach get there?  Who put them there?  When did they get there?

Before you go down  this road consider what purpose it serves in the narrative. It obviously is meant to serve as a power source. Rashid had hinted at that. Otherwise there is no  reason for the place to exist.  It's too dangerous.

Also consider that Demonreach lied to Bob when he reveled what and who built it.  You  should know by now that Demonreach is concealing something.

Odin had something to do with it. Interesting maybe.  Does Rashid wear Odin's eye? Interesting question  2. Who were LTW and the River Shoulders so frightened of that they wouldn't tell Harry about Drakul and Starborn?

[seanham]

Why do we presume Merlin or the Dragons created the ley line network around Demonreach? Maybe the network was not created by Merlin when he built the jail, maybe Merlin built the jail here BECAUSE the ley lines were here.

No, the Gatekeeper clearly states on page 385 of TC (soft cover)

"The ley line you speak of does not go through the island," he said. "This is where it wells up. The island is its source."

The Dragons or anyone else didn't create the ley line. The ley line is created by the combined magical energy of hundreds or thousands of powerful beings all in one place. The Dragons may have created other lines, but I think it is more likely every ley line comes from a place of great significance.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Dragons likely created the other ley lines into which the energies ofvDemobreach are grounded into the wider network.

[Ed0517]

The Swords can’t kill the Fallen only the hosts. The noose protects Nick, not Anduriel. The Fallen can heal their host and can stem the ravages of time.

Didn't say kill the Fallen, said kill Nic.

If immortals were so easy to kill Demonreach wouldn’t exist. We know:-

1. All immortals can be killed on Halloween (immortals do not like this to be known)
2. The Faerie Queens can be killed on the Stone Table
3. Repeated blasts from the Eye of Baelor can kill an immortal, probably by breaking reality in relation to them and their immortality.

Do we know ALL immortals can be killed on Halloween? We know the Fae court. Are Angels vulnerable? The Fallen? Hades?

If ALL immortals were killable on Halloween, I would expect traditional executions on Demonreach on Halloween. Harry could take a Naag out, have it stand facing the water, which itself is no threat, and shoot it in the back of the head. 

Indeed there is no reason for Michael not to think that he killed Sirriothrax rather than disincorporate him, Harry only finds out about killing immortals in Summer Knight because Bob found out this information and had to flee Winter. Ferro isn’t going to set him straight and it may explain why he was so forgiving of Michael in GP he knew Sirriothrax had only been disincorporated and not killed or imprisoned in Demonreach, and would be back. Michael is less clued into the supernatural than Harry, so he wouldn’t know.

and what reason do we have to think that discorporation is real? Ferro might simply be following rules he agreed to to be allowed into reality. If Siriothrax was a business matter for the Knights, their high-ups may frown on taking revenge. Though if Michael oversteps, Ferro might be allowed such.  Have we seen anything from this side of the Gates that just comes back and re-forms a body? And we never heard the body vanished. HWWB is an Outsider, rules may not apply there. 

[Ed0517]

No, the Gatekeeper clearly states on page 385 of TC (soft cover) "The ley line you speak of does not go through the island," he said. "This is where it wells up. The island is its source."

The Island. Not the beings. We heard that Edinburgh is also a nexus. Chichen Itza. I think they look at the lines like settlers may have once seen a waterfall. Hey, there's a place I can build a mill! Water power will grind my grain! Steel towns popped up around coal. We know the stones of the buildings have power infused - Merlin likely tapped the Well. Maybe they STILL tap the Well for power. Maybe Merlin harnessed that power to create Alfred... maybe it powers Alfred, and that is why he needs to stay near/on the island.

The Lines draw the building of the Wizard HQ, or Demonreach. Or Itza. The prisoners don't generate them. 

[vincentric]

The Island. Not the beings. We heard that Edinburgh is also a nexus. Chichen Itza. I think they look at the lines like settlers may have once seen a waterfall. Hey, there's a place I can build a mill! Water power will grind my grain! Steel towns popped up around coal. We know the stones of the buildings have power infused - Merlin likely tapped the Well. Maybe they STILL tap the Well for power. Maybe Merlin harnessed that power to create Alfred... maybe it powers Alfred, and that is why he needs to stay near/on the island.

The Lines draw the building of the Wizard HQ, or Demonreach. Or Itza. The prisoners don't generate them.

We also hear from Bob in Cold Days that the waste heat of the prisoners is what powers the ley lines. No prisoners, no energy. The ley lines are also coming from the middle of a body of water which would normally disperse the magic. Merlin probably set them up to bleed off excess power or the pent-up power would have exploded by now.