Author Topic: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”  (Read 5988 times)

Offline SerScot

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Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« on: December 14, 2022, 12:24:45 AM »
Seriously.  They were introduced in “Turn Coat”.  They made an appearance in “Changes”.  Now that Harry is expelled from the White Council will we see what the hell the “Grey Council” has actually become?  “Twelve Months” seems like a perfect opportunity…
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline g33k

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2022, 01:37:32 AM »
Seriously.  They were introduced in “Turn Coat”.  They made an appearance in “Changes”.  Now that Harry is expelled from the White Council will we see what the hell the “Grey Council” has actually become?  “Twelve Months” seems like a perfect opportunity …

IIRC, WoJ is that this book will be more about Chicago; the rebuilding, Harry settling in as "Wizard of Chicago" instead of warden, instead of WC wizard.

I'm guessing that means less of the "global-conspiracy" stuff... tho obviously Jim may well work that in, too!

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2022, 04:17:33 AM »


  Yeah, but you know what?  Once a member of the White Council, always a member of the White Council.  Harry cannot just toss that, it is who he is, they trashed him.  The day hasn't come yet that Rashid predicted that Harry would confront them.  Now it may not happen in Twelve Months, but it is coming.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2022, 02:50:45 PM »
The Grey Council has had a presence in four of the six books since TC. They just haven't had time to express the covert stuff as the Grey Council. Whether it was the battles in Chichen Itza or Chicago or near Demonreach, they've had a presence in all the major fights. They missed GS and SG.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 03:44:49 PM by vincentric »

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2022, 06:25:45 PM »
The Grey Council has had a presence in four of the six book since TC. They just haven't had time to express the covert stuff as the Grey Council. Whether it was the battles in Chichen Itza or Chicago or near Demonreach, they've had a presence in all the major fights. They missed GS an SK.

  Yeah, it seems like an idea that Jim has dropped or put on the back burner since Changes.  In Changes not only did they show up for the big show, Harry and Eb at least had a cool way of communicating as well.  What will be interesting is whether or not they show up at Harry's new digs for some serious planning outside of the Senior Council.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2022, 12:15:52 AM »
We may get communication from the Grey council... do recall Eb is his grandfather - he can get away with a bit more. plus, Blackstaff may claim he is not subject to any WC rules.... Eb has been to Harry's apartment. None of the other SC have. Can claim longstanding personal relationship, even without family roots needing to be known. Harry lived with him, he can be argued knows Harry the best, and is the best qualified to check on him. Luccio was mind controlled, and Carlos is outgunned by Harry - for that matter, so is Luccio now.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2022, 04:58:00 PM »
Except they have ordered Eb to execute Harry if he steps out of line, and execute Eb if he refuses.

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2022, 05:32:28 PM »
Except they have ordered Eb to execute Harry if he steps out of line, and execute Eb if he refuses.

  Yeah, it is going to get a bit awkward for Eb. 

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2022, 05:07:04 AM »
define get out of line. Harry has not done anything yet.

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2022, 11:23:20 AM »
define get out of line. Harry has not done anything yet.

He already has, there are those who want him dead..

Offline g33k

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2022, 03:49:48 PM »
Yeah, but you know what?  Once a member of the White Council, always a member of the White Council.  Harry cannot just toss that, it is who he is ...

I mean, yes... but also kinda no, y'know?

Harry was trained by WC wizards, so that's the kind of magic he knows.  Mab trained him to rely less upon his "traditional White Council" tools (the staff & rod &c), and his Winter powers seem to be able to operate in a different (more automatic/instinctive) mode than his WC training (in addition to just being an ice powerup to his prior magic).  So he's ... diversifying.  Gard used runes, and I bet Harry could use Gard's runes (with the right extra training).  Plus he's a Starborn, so he's got this suite of non-WC abilities (about which we still know very little, BTW!)

But the WC stuff is what he's known the longest, what he knows best.  When he thinks about solving a problem, WC-trained magic are the methods he mostly thinks about.

So, yes:  he's "still White Council."


At the same time, no.

The WC is basically just a social club.  The rules of the club say that the club gets to say who is/isn't a member, and the club has kicked out Harry Dresden.  He can't show up to vote, or debate internal WC matters.

If he does show up, it would need to be under the auspices of one of his other roles -- the WC would let the Winter Knight come address them, for example, on a matter of White Council / Winterfae diplomacy.

It's not as letter-of-the-law cut&dried as Mab's Unseelie Accords, but it's still a matter of following the rules, and the rules say:
no, Harry isn't a member of the White Council.

I have a WAG, though, that the Warden of Demonreach is actually the person who is in charge of the WC's "Wardens" (the same term "Warden" being used for both just seems like too much a coincidence, particularly since both the White Council itself and the prison on the island were set up by OG Merlin).  I look forward to a Big Reveal where the WC learns that their entire security / military apparatus belongs to Harry Dresden...
 :o
 ;D
 

Offline g33k

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2022, 03:51:52 PM »
Yeah, it seems like an idea that Jim has dropped or put on the back burner since Changes ...
They are supposed to be a "covert" group.  So it makes some sense that they aren't popping up (visibly, at least) in every story...

...  In Changes ... Harry and Eb at least had a cool way of communicating as well ...
We saw the "Talking Stone" before, at least once or twice.
No idea when/if we'll see it again.

...  What will be interesting is whether or not they show up at Harry's new digs for some serious planning outside of the Senior Council.
That seems possibleprobable, though I suspect it won't be in Twelve Months, as WoJ (IIRC) says it's more of a Harry-at-home, settling-in, retrenchment sort of story.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 03:58:55 PM by g33k »

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2022, 05:42:28 PM »
Quote
We saw the "Talking Stone" before, at least once or twice.
No idea when/if we'll see it again.

I don't think we did before Changes.. I can see a future way open up in Harry's living room thanks to Rashid and the whole group come waltzing in because they need Harry and it has to be on the q.t.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2022, 04:18:23 AM »
He already has, there are those who want him dead..

Not since he got kicked out. Hasn't peeved people off since. They wanted him dead before, still want him dead, and will want him dead until they die, which Marcone has noted happens a lot to Harry's opponents, whether he wants them dead or not. 

Offline Mira

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Re: Will we see more of the Grey Council in “Twelve Months”
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2022, 06:29:19 PM »
Not since he got kicked out. Hasn't peeved people off since. They wanted him dead before, still want him dead, and will want him dead until they die, which Marcone has noted happens a lot to Harry's opponents, whether he wants them dead or not.

Naw, they still want him dead, doesn't matter if he has pissed them off since or ever has.  Its like Carlos, he drank the kool aid big time, a lot of has to do with getting mangled because he tried to have sex with the Winter Lady, I suppose he blames Harry for that.. Or is it jealousy?  Think about it, Harry gets to play in a lot of different sand boxes, while Carlos who has always walked the straight and the narrow, can't or in the case of Molly almost loses his manhood while trying.. Which may be his problem... :o