Lara Raith marriage consummation

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I'm pretty sure WOJ says that Whamps cannot be powerful magic users.  That may not be something Lara knows; or any Whamp knows; or anyone in the Dresdenverse knows (I suspect Mother Summer -- the Intellectus of Fertility -- must know!)

Doesn’t stop them wanting one, as Thomas demonstrates. He can cast an illusion about himself and use tracking spells, the former Harry himself wasn’t good at until he had to tutor Molly. That is probably proof the Raith’s have a good magical library, and gives the potential for his child with Justine to me a talent as well as a Whamp.

The Black Court magic users in Battle Ground seemed powerful enough, were they turned Wizards? Turned by Drakul rather than another Blamp?

[Ed0517]

Powerful is a relative term - compare Thomas TO his relatives. Harry and Eb. Thomas is but a wee little bairn.

the Black Court are former humans. Mavra early on was above Harry's ability to take out, save perhaps with his death curse. Whites are a separate breed. You have to be born a Whamp. Reds might have spell ability too

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Bianca was learning magic to advance in the Red Court, Blamps probably can’t do a death curse, Mavra whilst a lesser talent than Harry has had centuries to hone it, which is presumably the same for the other Blamp Wizards,

[KurtinStGeorge]

Powerful is a relative term - compare Thomas TO his relatives. Harry and Eb. Thomas is but a wee little bairn.

the Black Court are former humans. Mavra early on was above Harry's ability to take out, save perhaps with his death curse. Whites are a separate breed. You have to be born a Whamp. Reds might have spell ability too

Red Court vamps could be sorcerers.  We know that Bianca learned some tricks from Mavra and we saw that Duchess Arianna wielded considerable magical strength; though without as much skill as Harry had, in their duel at Chicken Pizza.

Doesn’t stop them wanting one, as Thomas demonstrates. He can cast an illusion about himself and use tracking spells, the former Harry himself wasn’t good at until he had to tutor Molly.

Did Thomas cast an illusion spell on himself?  It's been a while since I read that short story, but I thought the enemy he was chasing put that spell on Thomas, so Harry would target him.  I could be wrong though.

If Thomas did cast an illusion spell on himself, that is actually impressive.  It's a subtle use of magic and not something a sorcerer would normally do.  Sorcerer's tend to like to smash things, blow them up or burn them down.  Thomas using an illusion spell would show him to be more of a thinker than Harry gives him credit for.   

[Conspiracy Theorist]

We have to be careful with the Reds, they had hijacked the Mayan belief system so power may have been cascading downwards rather than inherent to the practitioner, they may have been conduits rather than practitioners or a combination of the two. Michael for example is not a practioner but has been a conduit for the White God. The Reds may have been doing something similar, but we will never know now,

[Ed0517]

Powerful is a relative term - compare Thomas TO his relatives. Harry and Eb. Thomas is but a wee little bairn.

the Black Court are former humans. Mavra early on was above Harry's ability to take out, save perhaps with his death curse. Whites are a separate breed. You have to be born a Whamp. Reds might have spell ability too

OK, Reds might have spell ability too means SOME Reds can have spell ability, just like SOME Blacks have it, as they are former humans. Just like SOME humans might have ability. The Whites are NOT humans. Humans CAN become Reds (well, once they could),  and MAY become blacks. They CANNOT become Whites.  All Reds and Blacks do not have it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think the explanation(in a WOJ I think)is  that magic and life are linked which is why Wizards live so long, but because vampirism is the stealing of life force (directly or through blood) it dampens any magical ability the vampire has. From Harry to Snakeboy drop in power perhaps.  Thomas if rid of his demon might hit a significant wizard power level. Whether that is any use to Harry in curing Thomas is another matter, it does set Thomas apart from other Whamps. Thomas certainly seems to exercise his limited talent, so it hasn’t withered like Charity’s.

Harry treats Thomas as the world treats Harry, as a thug, I need to read that story again, myself, it’s been some time and probably worth going through the earlier short fiction again following the most recent stories, we got a couple of really substantial nuggets in The Law and major revelations in PT/BG, that may alter those stories in retrospect. Probably worth re-reading the original comics again for that matter as they are canon. For example in Peace Talks in the flashbacks Malcolm was teaching Harry slight of hand and close in magic. In Wild Card Harry beats Puck in a card game by apparent sheer luck, but I now wonder, did Harry use slight of hand to cheat because he realised Puck was only looking for magical and not mundane methods of cheating.

A re-read is required.

Harry’s got plenty of luck but all of it is bad.

Thats why other characters POV stories are useful, Harry is an unreliable narrator. He portrays Marcone very nearly right, for example,  but is way off on Toot in contrast.

[morriswalters]

I was thinking about   the original reasons for arranged marriage and the reasons for annulments and divorces. the main reason for arranged marriages was the combing  of two groups after the production of an heir.  history is full of stories about what happens when there is no heir produced. So, my question is will there be a child produced by the nuptials or will the marriage be a barren one with either an annulment because the contract was not upheld by either party when a child is not produced.

Neither the White Court or the Fey Courts use heirs to establish linage. The linage of the Fey is passed through the Mantle which is granted, not inherited, thus Molly. And the Whites use a political mechanism so that while Lara is the leader in fact, she rules through a puppet.  Both of the protagonists are immortals in any case. If a Lady is killed a male child could never take up the Fey Mantle.  In the case of Lara for a child of Harry to take the leadership of the Whites it would to murder to enable it's demon.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Neither the White Court or the Fey Courts use heirs to establish linage. The linage of the Fey is passed through the Mantle which is granted, not inherited, thus Molly. And the Whites use a political mechanism so that while Lara is the leader in fact, she rules through a puppet.  Both of the protagonists are immortals in any case. If a Lady is killed a male child could never take up the Fey Mantle.  In the case of Lara for a child of Harry to take the leadership of the Whites it would to murder to enable it's demon.

Are you sure Carlos couldn’t take up the Lady’s mantle? Virginity rather than gender seems to be the determining requirement there, and that is in short supply in Winter. Carlos could be the Winter Laddy. It’s about his luck with women.

 The Virginity requirement would disqualify Lara from Lady, but not Queen (the Mother) and Lara clearly acted as though she were a mother to her siblings, and has tried for a child of her own, so this makes me think she is being groomed as a back-up Queen, especially in marrying the Winter Knight.

Was Mab doing everything in her power to maintain Molly’s virginity pre Mantle? From her recovery from Arctis Tor onwards or before even that? Lea would have helped with the Ragged Lady pantomime post Harry’s ‘death’.

[morriswalters]

I don't think Butcher's is that woke.

[Arjan]

I think the mantle is perfectly capable of making you a women. It is a pretty bbasic curse in D&D after all

But only if you don't want it of course.

[Arjan]

I think Jim said somewhere that white court wizards are not as strong as coucil wizards but they can do interesting things with their hunger

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I don't think Butcher's is that woke.

I don’t know, in The Law, Bob is unduly fascinated with Gary’s skull, and appears to want to jump his bones.

Yep Arjan, within a few years Harry would be staring at Carlos bust, purely as a professional trained observer of course.

[vincentric]

Virginity is not a requirement for a Lady's Mantle. Lily was not a virgin when she succeeded Aurora and Sarissa was in-line for both the Summer and Winter offices despite her long life and experiences. The Mantles enforce celibacy and then only in the strictest sense of actual intercourse it seems. There may be considerable leeway in other activities.

[Ed0517]

Neither the White Court or the Fey Courts use heirs to establish linage. The linage of the Fey is passed through the Mantle which is granted, not inherited, thus Molly. And the Whites use a political mechanism so that while Lara is the leader in fact, she rules through a puppet.  Both of the protagonists are immortals in any case. If a Lady is killed a male child could never take up the Fey Mantle.  In the case of Lara for a child of Harry to take the leadership of the Whites it would to murder to enable it's demon.

I think what you are saying is they do not use heirs to determine SUCCESSION. The LINEAGE is biological. Harry is Eb's lineage, Joe knows it, I expect Martha does, and I'd be shocked if Rashid and Langtry don't.  It does not mean he gets the Mc Coy Seat, if you will,  on the WC. Otherwise there would never be a debate on who gets the open seat, and a Christos is blocked.

Lara rules thru a puppet as it was the quickest, most bloodless method to gain the power. Now, if in a few years it comes to light that she HAS puppeted her father, Whamps may think of a coup. But they also wouled have to realize she had the power to overthrow her father. They may learn Thomas is far from the idiot he pretended, and has some small magical ability, and if she still has her scary AF Winter Knight consort? They saw the duel in Raith Deeps, and he had much less power then. They know about the Red court. If they find out who... they could decide he might not be a man to cross. Plus, wizards only live 4, 500 years. Whamps play the long game.