The Law

[Mira]

And yet a wizard in 1776 could take a Way to the island, shoot the stars with a sextant, and go "Right then, I'm in the southern reaches of Lake Michigan."  If they were really good at it, they could reliably mark the location on a map.

If they cared to know, the information is trivially-easy to get.

I'm not saying they couldn't find it, or didn't, there is the ruins of a settlement on it.  However unless you have it on a chart, it isn't going to be some you'd easily run across.  The Lakes are very large and can be very dangerous in storms. So if it is removed from charts for whatever reason, not easy to find. 

[morriswalters]

Funny thing about the prison.  It has a giant spotlight which pinpoints the prison if you can get close to the Lake. It's the source of some fairly large ley lines. Which oddly enough is what Kemmler was trying to tap. Luccio even has a map of them.

The White Council as a body didn't need to know.  The Senior Council would know. The Merlin knew,  Eb knew, Listens To Wind knew and Rashid knew. The other Senior Council members had to be semi aware or else how could they control the hunt by the Wardens? This is a case of oversharing by Butcher.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You would have to assume that Merlin was an idiot to buy into this. He builds a prison with a fail safe that would take out Chicago and the environs, yet ignores the possibility of someone like Kemmler. I can't eat that apple. It's full of worms.

For navigation purposes finding an island on Lake Michigan is relatively easy.  By the early 1700's the first settlements were on the Lake. Not to mention that the Lake is pretty big and practically unmissable.

Which is why it is always accessed through Arctis Tor, Mab is the failsafe

[Mira]

Which is why it is always accessed through Arctis Tor, Mab is the failsafe

The prison can only be accessed by Alfred and the Warden if I remember correctly.  The island if you know where to look can by accessed by boat.. Oh and when Alfred took Harry and Bob down to show him where the prison was, they didn't need to go through Arctis Tor, they just needed the codes. Mab isn't the fail safe, at the end of Cold Days Harry threatened to turn Alfred on her and she backed off.  If she could be put in the slammer, she isn't a fail safe.

The White Council as a body didn't need to know.  The Senior Council would know. The Merlin knew,  Eb knew, Listens To Wind knew and Rashid knew. The other Senior Council members had to be semi aware or else how could they control the hunt by the Wardens? This is a case of oversharing by Butcher.

I doubt they know the details though..

[vincentric]

Which is why it is always accessed through Arctis Tor, Mab is the failsafe

You keep referencing that but there is nothing in the books or a WoJ that says that Way even exists. I have plenty of pet theories but I don't base my arguments on the. Please show your work with quotes.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Have already done so, please read the thread.

Where would you consider Demonreach backs onto in the NeverNever? Please provide quotes.

[vincentric]

Oh dear, I have to explain it again. There is a way from Chicago (Pell’s Theatre, Harry used it) to just outside Arctis Tor. Maeve let’s him in the fortress and takes Peabody to the Ice Dungeon and takes him plus Spiders to Demonreach. She brings him back, takes him back to Chicago and he goes back to Edinburgh. He makes his own way to Chicago.

The time dilation of Arctis Tor and the shortcut through the Never Never, means Peabody leaves Edinburgh first, and catches up with the Senior Council on Demonreach. He leaves Demonreach and gets back before the Senior Council.

You're using your own speculation as a reference. Yes, there is a Way from Chicago to Arctis Tor but that does not mean there is a Way from Arctis Tor to Demonreach. We don't know who was working with Peabody and was there with him on the island.

As for where Demonreach backs onto the NeverNever, I've no clue. But I've never made any assertions about it. Why would I need quotes to defend an argument I've never made?

[g33k]

I'm not saying they couldn't find it, or didn't, there is the ruins of a settlement on it.  However unless you have it on a chart, it isn't going to be some you'd easily run across.  The Lakes are very large and can be very dangerous in storms. So if it is removed from charts for whatever reason, not easy to find.

There's several contexts of "finding it" under discussion, and it's worth clarifying what we are talking about.

Mundane folk need charts/maps, or aircraft/etc.  So far as we know, the White Council has effectively edited the island off all the charts & maps.  The WC may even have gotten things like satellite-overview to apply the same "editing" that military bases get, so it doesn't show that way.  It's likely that some local pilots know of it; short-haul passenger & cargo aircraft will occasionally catch sight, no doubt.  That's about it.

Wizards mostly seem to get there via Ways (except, for some reason, Harry Dresden(?!), who (despite owning the Ways of LeFey!!!) keeps taking a boat there!  I find that very odd indeed (I sense a spin-off thread in the offing)).  Wizards -- wardens of the prison -- have been getting to the island, and stashing prisoners, for... I dunno...  Centuries?  Millennia?  The prison on the island is O-L-D (in part, of course, because it was constructed via Time-based magic).

My point is:  wizards, so far as we know, have never had any particular challenge "finding" the island, in the "finding their way there" sense.  The only issue for wizards -- maybe -- is locating it, as in a location on a map.

My point (in this tangent) is -- wizards have not in fact had any particular challenge in finding the island, in that 2nd "on a mundane map" sense.  Only muggles are challenged (and even them, less and less so); but they have no particular desire regarding the island.  Wizards, OTOH, have an intense interest in it.
 

[morriswalters]

The only reference is from Small Favor.

“Cross into the Nevernever from where you’re standing?” Nicodemus asked. “You’d be better off asking the Russian to put a bullet through your head for you. I know what lives on the other side.”

Also in Small Favor is the ley line map that Harry uses to get to Demonreach the first time. Compiled by Listens To Wind.

[g33k]

The only reference is from Small Favor.

n.b. that was the top of the island; not the entirety of it.
I doubt the same Nevernever location backs onto the dock-area, the ruins of the lakeside town, or the forested areas, or etc.

OTOH, I also doubt anyplace on Demonreach opens onto, y'know... a friendly, peaceful kind of place !

But in Turn Coat, Harry detects people arriving straight onto the island, out of the Nevernever.

Also in Small Favor is the ley line map that Harry uses to get to Demonreach the first time. Compiled by Listens To Wind.

Do we actually know that it's LTW's map, or only presume it?  But... in the end, is it relevant who made it, germane to this discussion?

[morriswalters]

The map is in the text and it's provenance is given by Luccio. I'll leave it to you to decide if it's relevant.

Butcher's Rule. If there is a secret Harry won't know it but his enemies and almost everybody else will. However on what lies on the other side I have no idea, that is the only text I'm aware of that brings up the subject.

[Arjan]

n.b. that was the top of the island; not the entirety of it.
I doubt the same Nevernever location backs onto the dock-area, the ruins of the lakeside town, or the forested areas, or etc.

OTOH, I also doubt anyplace on Demonreach opens onto, y'know... a friendly, peaceful kind of place !

But in Turn Coat, Harry detects people arriving straight onto the island, out of the Nevernever.

Do we actually know that it's LTW's map, or only presume it?  But... in the end, is it relevant who made it, germane to this discussion?

Those could have een summoned.

[Mira]

Wizards mostly seem to get there via Ways (except, for some reason, Harry Dresden(?!), who (despite owning the Ways of LeFey!!!) keeps taking a boat there!  I find that very odd indeed (I sense a spin-off thread in the offing)).  Wizards -- wardens of the prison -- have been getting to the island, and stashing prisoners, for... I dunno...  Centuries?  Millennia?  The prison on the island is O-L-D (in part, of course, because it was constructed via Time-based magic).

Perhaps because the Way to the island is most unpleasant and dangerous as eluded to by Rashid in Turn Coat.  No doubt Harry could find it and use it with his handy dandy GPS Way jewel, but not something he'd want to do everyday.  As pointed out, even the Senior Council chose conventional transport to the island instead of using the Way to it.  Also as we saw in Peabody's case, though he apparently brought the nasties in with him deliberately, there is a risk that some monsters can enter  with you when you open it.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The nasties were Ice Spiders from Winter originally placed to stop Harry or others on the way from Edinburgh to Chicago, by Maeve. This confirms the Way to Demonreach is also in Winter.

[Mira]

The nasties were Ice Spiders from Winter originally placed to stop Harry or others on the way from Edinburgh to Chicago, by Maeve. This confirms the Way to Demonreach is also in Winter.

And your evidence for this is what?  Apparently if she did it it wasn't very effective.  Rashid traveled to the island by a way with no problem.... And Peabody saw them as an assets.