Greeks vs Romans

[Mira]

Mycenean Greece predates both; then Greece had a fragmented "Dark Age" for some centuries.  The "Archaic Greek" era and the rise of the "Polis" city-state model in Greece was, again, roughly contemporaneous with the early Etruscans & Romans.

(I am unclear how much of this historical trivia is relevant to the Dresdenverse; but, see below!)

I believe it is, because of the glimpse Harry had in the inadvertent soul gaze with that Kraken
back in Peace Talks..  The question is how?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Giant octopus would be mortal and sentient, Harry could probably soulgaze a chimp, orangutan or Gorrilla, Dolphins probably not, not because they are nor sentient mortals but the eyes are wrongly placed, with a vet different field of vision.

[Mira]

Giant octopus would be mortal and sentient, Harry could probably soulgaze a chimp, orangutan or Gorrilla, Dolphins probably not, not because they are nor sentient mortals but the eyes are wrongly placed, with a vet different field of vision.

No, not the same, do octopus have souls? If I remember correctly he attempted to soul gaze Terra West, or wanted to and the answer was it wouldn't happen because she wasn't human.  What he saw was a classical ancient landscape, memories. Since the Fomor kidnap mortal children and change them genetically over time, it says this creature was once human.

[Arjan]

If you start a soul gaze with someone without a soul it does not mean nothing will happen. In some cases you open yourself for attack. Try soulgaze a red court vampire for example.

[Mira]

If you start a soul gaze with someone without a soul it does not mean nothing will happen. In some cases you open yourself for attack. Try soulgaze a red court vampire for example.

But Red Court vampires were human once, before they were infected.

[g33k]

But Red Court vampires were human once, before they were infected.

The first time Harry met Mab -- before the iron-nail / unmasking interaction -- she tried to entice him into a soulgaze, and he declined... in part, because he was already pretty sure she wasn't mortal, and knew that trying to soulgaze some nonhuman entities could be very dangerous for a mortal.

If Harry had accepted the soulgaze with Mab, I don't think we know what would have happened; not nothing, I presume (or Mab would not have offered).  Mab was also human once; but there's not very much of that person left.
 
Blampires are former-humans, but are emphatically not human any longer.  Their gaze is dangerous... trying to soulgaze one would likely be an invitation to become their thrall.

[Basil]

Not so (for the first bit).

The Etruscans were essentially contemporaneous with the ancient (pre-Republic) Kingdom of Rome; the Republic stage of Rome saw the end of the Etruscans as rivals of theirs.   The Romans definitely borrowed from the Etruscans (several loan-words have been documented, for example).  It may well have gone both ways, but we know a LOT more about the Romans.  Etruscan "borrowings" from Rome -- if any (I assert the extreme likelihood thereof) -- are AFAIK lost to the ravages of time and Empire.

Mycenean Greece predates both; then Greece had a fragmented "Dark Age" for some centuries.  The "Archaic Greek" era and the rise of the "Polis" city-state model in Greece was, again, roughly contemporaneous with the early Etruscans & Romans.

(I am unclear how much of this historical trivia is relevant to the Dresdenverse; but, see below!)

This is... an excellent point.

Given that we learned relatively long-ago that the Whamp "court language" was Etruscan, the lack of further info is indeed "suspicious" (OTOH, I wouldn't put it past Jim to simply be holding this back in order to provoke speculation, as a red-herring sort of thing).

We haven't deciphered much of Etruscan as of yet, but I think they are hopeful a they find more stuff.

I think it is interesting that we know very little of White Court origins.  I suspect that they are the offspring of a powerful Etruscan wizard that "did a deal." 

[Mira]

The first time Harry met Mab -- before the iron-nail / unmasking interaction -- she tried to entice him into a soulgaze, and he declined... in part, because he was already pretty sure she wasn't mortal, and knew that trying to soulgaze some nonhuman entities could be very dangerous for a mortal.

If Harry had accepted the soulgaze with Mab, I don't think we know what would have happened; not nothing, I presume (or Mab would not have offered).  Mab was also human once; but there's not very much of that person left.
 
Blampires are former-humans, but are emphatically not human any longer.  Their gaze is dangerous... trying to soulgaze one would likely be an invitation to become their thrall.

But doesn't mean there isn't enough human left for a soul gaze.. There is still a hint of human in Mab, we saw that in a second of weakness after Maeve died in Cold Days.  Harry saw it and Kringle warned him never to let her or anyone else know that he saw it.

[Feral Plum]

About the nameless one. It has been shown that Harry Dresden has the ability to put a name to things. Names that stick. Off the top of my head, see the over reaction to giving a wrong - shortened name - to an angel.

Is the nameless Mr Winter in danger from Harry. Or does he crave a name from someone who cam give him a NAME?

[Mira]

About the nameless one. It has been shown that Harry Dresden has the ability to put a name to things. Names that stick. Off the top of my head, see the over reaction to giving a wrong - shortened name - to an angel.

Is the nameless Mr Winter in danger from Harry. Or does he crave a name from someone who cam give him a NAME?

Harry generally gives names for two reasons, affection or to mock and belittle an foe. Now I am not sure if he will attempt it with a demi-god, but he did give an archangel a nick name so one never knows.

[g33k]

We haven't deciphered much of Etruscan as of yet, but I think they are hopeful a they find more stuff.

I'm a bit dubious that there is (very much) left *to* find.  The region has been extensively explored for *millenia* and is one of the very first regions where exploitative collectors and proto-archaeologists (generally Brit's) were active from the mid-1700s onwards.

I honestly suspect the Romans pursued a policy of "erasure;" perhaps not consciously, but in the way "systemic" social & related policies, biased administrators, and similar elements can have the same effect.

I think it is interesting that we know very little of White Court origins.  I suspect that they are the offspring of a powerful Etruscan wizard that "did a deal." 

The Ramps & the Whamps have that similar element:  some non-human "thing" exists in them, that cannot get full expression until they kill.

I suspect that Jim won't write a same-y "some wizard done F'ed up" backstory for both of them, but yes:  I suspect one of them will be a result of some long-ago wizard(s).  I can make (what I feel are) excellent cases for each one being "a wizard F-up," but my bet is for it to be the Whamp origin-story (I think I'll launch a new thread on the topic, it's very-tangential to this one).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Harry generally gives names for two reasons, affection or to mock and belittle an foe. Now I am not sure if he will attempt it with a demi-god, but he did give an archangel a nick name so one never knows.

He has already given Nameless a name.

Cowl.

[Con]

He has already given Nameless a name.

Cowl.

You think the lawyers Cowl?

huh good theory.

Dunno if I agree with it yet and as it stand I could poke holes through it like cheddar cheese but good theory nonetheless.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

1. Nameless worked with (and not for) Kemmler, and Cowl knew exactly what Bob was in Dead Beat, and what information he might contain;
2. Cowl adopted his namesake Cowl at the Vampire Party in Grave Peril, the Leansidhe was there and would have recognised him otherwise. He would have attracted her attention with an glamour in a crowd where nobody else was using an glamour.
3. Nameless was paperclipped into Winter, but this may have been an ulterior motive to get inside Winter to set up the attack on Lea, and the attack on Arctis Tor (after which Nameless was expelled), by the Circle.
4. The items in Nameless office include a (bear) skull used to summon a spirit, and an evil looking dagger. Both items associated with Cowl’s previous appearances.

[Mira]

Oh Cowl, yet another plot thread that has gone missing from the fabric of this series...