"Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates"

[Ed0517]

I thought Rashid said his scans were not a perfect approach, part art, part science.

[g33k]

  ... Either [Rashid] misses one now and again, which I doubt, or Nemesis gets in our world another way, which it does.  It relies on mortals who are willing to summon it knowingly or unknowingly with they play with the dark arts.

I think he "misses one now and again"  and  there are mortals mucking around with Outsider-calling magic.

[Fcrate]

Yes, that is pretty much confirmed by the fact that Rashid "x-rays" every soldier with his eye as they return through the Gates after a skirmish. Either he misses one now and again, which I doubt, or Nemesis gets in our world another way, which it does.  It relies on mortals who are willing to summon it knowingly or unknowingly with they play with the dark arts.

I think he "misses one now and again"  and  there are mortals mucking around with Outsider-calling magic.

heh, your punning just got thoroughly grounded.
The question is : Does Nemesis actively control everyone who's infected real-time? Can it, over time, manage to control enough Winter soldiers to Trojan horse the outer gates the old fashioned way?

[forumghost]

Iirc woj is that nemesis/he who walks beside has limits to

A) how many people it can possess at a given moment

B) how stronk what it claims can be (so no nemfecting mr sunshine for example)

[Mira]

 Over and over again, from Blood Rites through Peace Talks, Harry says only mortals can call up Outsiders.  In Cold Days Rashid scans all of the wounded being brought back through the Outer Gates and I assume the unwounded as well, for what? Nemesis..

I think the first is one of the easiest for Nemesis to break into our world.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The whistling in occurred in Peace Talks when The Hounds came in, a direct frontal assault. Nemesis is you saboteur, NemJustine forced Thomas into a situation to cause discord between the Swartalves and the White Court. The Hounds were aimed at Eb to take out the most effective hitter of the White Court.

We know of one other act of premeditation, the attack on the Carpenters organised by Listen, to undercut Harry directly. I think Listen was responsible for the Hounds as well.

[g33k]

heh, your punning just got thoroughly grounded.

<shrugs>
I've learned to roll with the punches!

[Mira]

The whistling in occurred in Peace Talks when The Hounds came in, a direct frontal assault. Nemesis is you saboteur, NemJustine forced Thomas into a situation to cause discord between the Swartalves and the White Court. The Hounds were aimed at Eb to take out the most effective hitter of the White Court.

We know of one other act of premeditation, the attack on the Carpenters organised by Listen, to undercut Harry directly. I think Listen was responsible for the Hounds as well.

Justine, a mortal most likely called up the Hounds.  I think she got infected as early as Grave Peril, or maybe even before to become a plant with in the White Court.  Nemesis thinks long term.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Justine could, but Nemesis can’t. She could have forced Thomas to do it as he has a rudimentary ability in that area but the timing was wrong, and he is mortal enough to be Winter Knight, so probably could

She was working with another mortal, my money on Listen.

[Mira]

Justine could, but Nemesis can’t. She could have forced Thomas to do it as he has a rudimentary ability in that area but the timing was wrong, and he is mortal enough to be Winter Knight, so probably could

She was working with another mortal, my money on Listen.

When the Hounds were called up Thomas was mostly in a coma near death.. Justine might have been possessed by Nemesis at that moment, but she was still very mortal and in a position to be manipulated by Nemesis to do it.

[Ulfgeir]

A few musings...  Do we know if Justine has any magical capability of her own, or is that even needed as long as you perform the proper ritual for summoning outsiders (like following a recipe), given that these are things that WANT to enter our world, whereas other beings might object to being summoned? Or could it be that she is a willing host for the walker, and the walker then temporarily granted her the magical spark, in the same scence that the fallen angels in one of the denarian coins can lend you powers temporarily, and they act through you?

[Mira]

A few musings...  Do we know if Justine has any magical capability of her own, or is that even needed as long as you perform the proper ritual for summoning outsiders (like following a recipe), given that these are things that WANT to enter our world, whereas other beings might object to being summoned? Or could it be that she is a willing host for the walker, and the walker then temporarily granted her the magical spark, in the same scence that the fallen angels in one of the denarian coins can lend you powers temporarily, and they act through you?

I think someone, I think Thomas said everyone has "some" magical ability, and in a lot of ways it is like following a recipe.  Consider Butters in Dead Beat, he has little magical ability, but after he was shown how to do it by Harry was able to draw a circle to sit in to protect himself from zombies etc while he drummed to keep Sue going.  It has been a while since I read it, but if I remember correctly though Madge had some power all that was required to call up an Outsider was knowing the correct spell etc which Lord Raith supplied her.  Could be wrong admittedly, but that is how I remember it.  But back to Justine, she doesn't need to have power, all she needed were the words etc which Nemesis could easily tell her.

[Ed0517]

A few musings...  Do we know if Justine has any magical capability of her own, or is that even needed as long as you perform the proper ritual for summoning outsiders (like following a recipe), given that these are things that WANT to enter our world, whereas other beings might object to being summoned? Or could it be that she is a willing host for the walker, and the walker then temporarily granted her the magical spark, in the same scence that the fallen angels in one of the denarian coins can lend you powers temporarily, and they act through you?

for some reason i think at the time they met, the party, I think she offered her hand to Harry. If she were a practitioner of any power, he could have told them

[Fcrate]

Even if she didn't offer her hand then, she was naked when she scratched him all over in the laundry room when they got kidnapped. No tingle.

[Mira]

Even if she didn't offer her hand then, she was naked when she scratched him all over in the laundry room when they got kidnapped. No tingle.

But I think the tingle only comes if there is significant power present.. I bet if Harry shook hands with Butters in Dead Beat there would be no tingle either, yet under Harry's instructions he could draw a chalk circle, and it had the power to protect him from zombies as he sat in it.  It goes along with the warnings about screwing around with the occult, vanilla humans following a recipe can call up some dangerous beings, like demons and Outsiders, no magical talent needed.