How the hell did Blood on his Soul survive being mulched to a pulp

[Arjan]

What points to her being Murphy?  That because she died a heroic warrior and was sent to Valhalla
she will remain Murphy?  Maybe that part of her, but she was a more complicated person than that.
Also as many like to say, Jim likes to make Harry and the reader suffer.. What better way to make both Harry and her fans suffer big time, but for her body to come back, but her mind totally changed..

how both Jim and Gard talk about it. This is not some sort of zombie or black court vampire construction. It is her soul in it.

There is even a woj about waking up in a different afterlife than you expect. About deals between gods about specific persons.

The whole story does not make sense if it is not Murphy. We also know Vadderung uses soulfire for this. The fires of creation as some monster called it.

I think we have some sort of Christian exceptionalism here like there is only one real afterlife and the rest is fake. From what we read in skin game Hades is real and there is no reason to assume Walhalla is not. Just like Socrates is in Hades Murphy is in walhalla.

[Mira]

The whole story does not make sense if it is not Murphy. We also know Vadderung uses soulfire for this. The fires of creation as some monster called it.

We know?  Why doesn't the story make sense if it isn't Murphy? I could argue if she remains Murphy unchanged, it would make no sense at all.  Hell, Harry has changed some and he was only mostly dead.

I think we have some sort of Christian exceptionalism here like there is only one real afterlife and the rest is fake. From what we read in skin game Hades is real and there is no reason to assume Walhalla is not. Just like Socrates is in Hades Murphy is in walhalla.

Jim has always tip toed on a tightrope here about religion from the very beginning.  Yes, he includes gods, goddesses, fairies, Hades, the Nevernever, but interesting though Mab calls Him, "the White God," and that has been picked up on this site, Harry in the books always calls Him, "the Almighty," always with a capital "G,H, or A."  Still all the gods have their rules that are not to be violated.. Hades has his rules about the Artifacts, and he obeys them.  Mab has her rules governing Fae behavior, even she cannot cross them.

When Gard says the rule governing those that go to Valhalla is a rule "that even the All Father, Odin a.k.a. Vadderung cannot break." She means it, it has nothing to do with whether or not Odin/Vadderung can use Soul Fire to do it, yes, he could, but the rule is he cannot.. Not without cosmic consequences.  To me at any rate the story would make a heck of a lot more sense if Murphy went to work with her father for Uriel, Harry might see her once in a while, she remains Murphy.. Odin breaking ALL his rules so she could come back in body and mind to Harry before all memory of her has passed just so they can cuddle again, and basically that would be the only reason, would be tripe..  Her being Super Woman was getting old, it ignored everything that I originally liked the character for. In the early books she was a good smart cop, a good shot, etc, but she had limits.  She was a vanilla human, a strong liberated woman, but human.  However by her demise she was more of a comic book super woman like character, severe injury, totally ignored, remove that cast, toss a Valkyrie on her ear, ride a motorcycle, with the wisdom of Solomon and the bravery of Audie Murphy... Bringing her back as one of the undying, unchanged?  No thank you, that is why she had to be killed off, and she should remain dead.

[Arjan]

And why would she not remain Murphy with Vadderung and would sh remain Murphy with Uriel? Maybe she is with Vadderung precisely because it fits her personality better.

But change is not the point. Everything and everyone changes. Harry changes and Murphy’s father is still changing. But it is changing and also being who you are.

Bringing her back is theoretically possible in the dresdenverse just like bringing anyone back is possible but I do not think it will happen. The gods tend to keep the souls they collected.

[vincentric]

We know?  Why doesn't the story make sense if it isn't Murphy? I could argue if she remains Murphy unchanged, it would make no sense at all.  Hell, Harry has changed some and he was only mostly dead.

Jim has always tip toed on a tightrope here about religion from the very beginning.  Yes, he includes gods, goddesses, fairies, Hades, the Nevernever, but interesting though Mab calls Him, "the White God," and that has been picked up on this site, Harry in the books always calls Him, "the Almighty," always with a capital "G,H, or A."  Still all the gods have their rules that are not to be violated.. Hades has his rules about the Artifacts, and he obeys them.  Mab has her rules governing Fae behavior, even she cannot cross them.

When Gard says the rule governing those that go to Valhalla is a rule "that even the All Father, Odin a.k.a. Vadderung cannot break." She means it, it has nothing to do with whether or not Odin/Vadderung can use Soul Fire to do it, yes, he could, but the rule is he cannot.. Not without cosmic consequences.  To me at any rate the story would make a heck of a lot more sense if Murphy went to work with her father for Uriel, Harry might see her once in a while, she remains Murphy.. Odin breaking ALL his rules so she could come back in body and mind to Harry before all memory of her has passed just so they can cuddle again, and basically that would be the only reason, would be tripe..  Her being Super Woman was getting old, it ignored everything that I originally liked the character for. In the early books she was a good smart cop, a good shot, etc, but she had limits.  She was a vanilla human, a strong liberated woman, but human.  However by her demise she was more of a comic book super woman like character, severe injury, totally ignored, remove that cast, toss a Valkyrie on her ear, ride a motorcycle, with the wisdom of Solomon and the bravery of Audie Murphy... Bringing her back as one of the undying, unchanged?  No thank you, that is why she had to be killed off, and she should remain dead.

There's no reason that the two are mutually exclusive. She can be changed and still be Murphy, otherwise no characters can ever experience growth, rise or fall. We'd be on our fourth or fifth Harry by now if that was the case.

Regardless of Jim placing the White God in the Almighty position, he does also acknowledge that other pantheons exist and therefore their afterlives are real in the context of the Dresdenverse. Nic's daughter is in Tartarus, by word of Hades himself. Murphy and Hendricks are in Valhalla by the word of one of Odin's valkyries. Murphy's father is in a purgatory like realm working for Uriel. This is where their souls, the core of their existence, are. It's how the Dresdenverse works.

You have to accept that the author is going to tell their story, their way, using the author's canon for how things work in universe. Or you can read it under protest and be unhappy or stop reading altogether.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The issue may be living memory and for Gard the no-fraternisation rule her employer utilises.

Gard may also be aware that Odin’s time is drawing near, she may have thought she had decades with Nathan, instead she may only see him briefly again at Ragnarok.

I wonder if because of Hendricks’ Gard will tell Harry how to make Einenjharen, so that he raises both Hendricks and Murphy tied to his life. Suddenly days and decades replaced by centuries.

I think the afterlife is dependent upon belief but can be diverted by the white gods or other power, Deidre should have gone to Lucifer, on belief  but ended up with Hades.

[Mira]

There's no reason that the two are mutually exclusive. She can be changed and still be Murphy, otherwise no characters can ever experience growth, rise or fall. We'd be on our fourth or fifth Harry by now if that was the case.

No, you cannot be that changed and still be what you once were, except in name.  Yes, you can call it character growth, but it has it's limits.

Regardless of Jim placing the White God in the Almighty position, he does also acknowledge that other pantheons exist and therefore their afterlives are real in the context of the Dresdenverse. Nic's daughter is in Tartarus, by word of Hades himself. Murphy and Hendricks are in Valhalla by the word of one of Odin's valkyries. Murphy's father is in a purgatory like realm working for Uriel. This is where their souls, the core of their existence, are. It's how the Dresdenverse works.

Yes, but each realm has it's rules, that is the point and the rule for those who are sent to Valhalla was spelled out by Gard.  Who, I might point out had all the same reasons that Harry has that it be otherwise.  "Not even the All Father can break it." There are cosmic rules even in the Dresdenverse.

You have to accept that the author is going to tell their story, their way, using the author's canon for how things work in universe. Or you can read it under protest and be unhappy or stop reading altogether.

Yes, as do you.. In this case the author killed off Murphy, sent her to Valhalla,a Valkyrie who knows quite a lot about it said that Murphy wasn't coming back until all memory of her has passed.  She also said that was a rule that even the All Father couldn't break.. Now maybe that gives Jim wiggle room to bring Murphy back, maybe not.. But unless there is a WOJ out there saying that he is, or changes his mind, then you have to accept that she is dead, her body and soul in Valhalla and she isn't coming back until Harry and anyone else who knew her, and remembers her, is dead.

The issue may be living memory and for Gard the no-fraternisation rule her employer utilises.

Gard may also be aware that Odin’s time is drawing near, she may have thought she had decades with Nathan, instead she may only see him briefly again at Ragnarok.

I wonder if because of Hendricks’ Gard will tell Harry how to make Einenjharen, so that he raises both Hendricks and Murphy tied to his life. Suddenly days and decades replaced by centuries.

I think the afterlife is dependent upon belief but can be diverted by the white gods or other power, Deidre should have gone to Lucifer, on belief  but ended up with Hades.

That won't happen because I doubt that Gard knows how or has the power to make Einenjharen, and neither does Harry.

[morriswalters]

I could really care less about what god does what to who.  If they took the body then they must have needed the body to put something in.  And since Butcher didn't bury the body then I fully expect her to be back. So now we have to go with at least one book where Harry grieves because, boo hoo, he misses her. This is the same stew all warmed over as Susan. So now Lara can melt his heart.

[Mira]

I could really care less about what god does what to who.  If they took the body then they must have needed the body to put something in.  And since Butcher didn't bury the body then I fully expect her to be back. So now we have to go with at least one book where Harry grieves because, boo hoo, he misses her. This is the same stew all warmed over as Susan. So now Lara can melt his heart.

Oh didn't say Murphy wouldn't be back, but that will be sometime after the BAT..  Kind of like having it both ways, Murphy is dead, no doubt about it, bullet through her carotid artery, she bled out in Harry's arms... Her body is hauled off to Valhalla; So maybe she isn't dead. Right? Not really.

What are dead Viking warriors called?
the einherjar
In Norse mythology, the einherjar (singular einheri) literally "army of one", "those who fight alone") are those who have died in battle and are brought to Valhalla by valkyries.

Key word here, died in battle, dead.. And;

Where do dead warriors go?
Valhalla
The best-known vision of the Norse afterlife is that of Valhalla, the hall of the heroes where warriors chosen by the Valkyries feast with the god Odin, tell stories from their lives, and fight each other in preparation for the final battle of Ragnarök, the end of the world and death of the gods.

Oh, another keyword, afterlife... Who goes to an afterlife? The dead.

So, okay Jim cheated a bit, his verse, he has some of the Einherjar working for Marcone.  At the same time though they don't go home to mom at night, visit their lovers or children.. Hmmm? Maybe because all those that remembered them are long dead and buried..

So, oh her body was taken ergo she will be back, but when?  When all memory of her is gone.. So Jim is having it both ways, he killed her off, but because she went to Valhalla and her cold stiff dead body was taken away by one of the Valkyrie, she will be back, just long after the BAT.. And if she dies again outside of Valhalla she ends up in;

In Norse mythology, Ginnungagap (Old Norse: [ˈɡinːoŋɡɑˌɡɑp]; "gaping abyss", "yawning void") is the primordial void mentioned in the Gylfaginning, ...

So yeah, she could come back, I doubt she will be the Murphy Harry knew and loved.. And they ain't going to live happily ever after. 

I don't begrudge Harry some grief and depression over all of this, that is normal..  That is why I hope that Murphy stays in Valhalla until Ragnarök, so Harry can heal and get on, because there is a lot ahead of him.. He doesn't need a repeat of what he went through with half turned Susan. Let the story move on, he has a couple of kids, is engaged to a vampire, and has to save the world at some point.

[Ed0517]

No, Murphy is dead, she isn't even getting the reward that her Catholic Faith promised her. 

I think she gets Heaven in the end. It's just delayed. She's working off some karma in a Purgatory.  It's like her father, working for Uriel in HIS Purgatory, until he is ready to face Judgement. Murphy is hired out to Vadderung, and likely had a choice to do this or face Judgement. Gonna rack up some Brownie Points first.   

[Mira]

I think she gets Heaven in the end. It's just delayed. She's working off some karma in a Purgatory.  It's like her father, working for Uriel in HIS Purgatory, until he is ready to face Judgement. Murphy is hired out to Vadderung, and likely had a choice to do this or face Judgement. Gonna rack up some Brownie Points first.

That might work, and a way that Jim could cheat..  However I will bet you two wet noodles that if what you say is true, she will be there for the BAT, but not be who Harry remembers, then leave again because the object of this is to cause pain to Harry.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Actually Murphy may be a bone of contention between Odin and the White God, she is a former Knight and as such should have been shepherded by the angel of death, unless this was what intended all along. Perhaps in the APOCALYPSE Murphy leads a battalion of former knights, alongside the Einenjharen, so we get to see Shiro again, or Michael swinging back into action one last time  with every dead knight each bearing a version of their sword, each part of Harry’s Banner, using the power of the Winter Knight AND his soulfire combined with the super weapons to bring them back from heaven for one last engagement.

[Mira]

Actually Murphy may be a bone of contention between Odin and the White God, she is a former Knight and as such should have been shepherded by the angel of death, unless this was what intended all along. Perhaps in the APOCALYPSE Murphy leads a battalion of former knights, alongside the Einenjharen, so we get to see Shiro again, or Michael swinging back into action one last time  with every dead knight each bearing a version of their sword, each part of Harry’s Banner, using the power of the Winter Knight AND his soulfire combined with the super weapons to bring them back from heaven for one last engagement.

That could be, but it leads to another question, does Sanya get to go to Heaven?  He is a Holy Knight but he also claims to be an atheist? Actually he appears more agnostic to me, but still.
But the subject of Murphy's faith is important in this context, another question, did she have a choice?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Sanya gets to go to heaven, but spends eternity arguing with St Peter that it is in fact merely an hallucination caused by misfiring neutrons in his dying brain.

It ceases to be heaven for St Peter.

[Arjan]

That could be, but it leads to another question, does Sanya get to go to Heaven?  He is a Holy Knight but he also claims to be an atheist? Actually he appears more agnostic to me, but still.
But the subject of Murphy's faith is important in this context, another question, did she have a choice?

There are no Christian knights of the cross anymore. Butters is a Jew who has more faith in Star Wars than Christ and Uriel is OK with that. Retrospectively the last Christian knight made a lot of choices that were more in line with Vadderung than with the swords so that is probably the reason Odin could claim her and Uriel agreed.

I do not think it matters. The way we see Uriel and what we think about his boss is heavily influenced by Harry and the culture he lives in. Uriel can probably also appear as the ultimate Jedi serving th force. Maybe that is how Butters sees him. A lot of religions have some vague sky got that created the world and did nothing seriously afterwards or you can get mystical about I and god is everything.

Santa gets a good place that fits him. The same for Butters.

[Mira]

There are no Christian knights of the cross anymore. Butters is a Jew who has more faith in Star Wars than Christ and Uriel is OK with that. Retrospectively the last Christian knight made a lot of choices that were more in line with Vadderung than with the swords so that is probably the reason Odin could claim her and Uriel agreed.

Butters still believes in God, supposedly Sanya does not by his own definition.. Are you saying that Michael was in agreement with Vadderung?  Or Shiro for that matter. 

I do not think it matters. The way we see Uriel and what we think about his boss is heavily influenced by Harry and the culture he lives in. Uriel can probably also appear as the ultimate Jedi serving th force. Maybe that is how Butters sees him. A lot of religions have some vague sky got that created the world and did nothing seriously afterwards or you can get mystical about I and god is everything.

We don't know that Uriel is the head guy in charge of that.  Raphael seemed to have a lot to do with Michael.

Santa gets a good place that fits him. The same for Butters.

Not quite the same a lot of the "Christmas" traditions are adapted from pagan Scandinavian and Germanic traditions so it makes perfect sense that on of the All Father Odin's guises is Father Christmas or Kris Kringle..  We aren't sure how much Butters practiced his religion, it was never a subject he and Harry spoke much if at all about.