Battle Ground, Lara, Black Court, White Court, Drakul, Some Stuff in Dead Beat

[Arjan]

The gatekeeper won’t say anything. He is keeping the white council uninformed for centuries now.

I think the white council knows the servitors are not really human. Ramirez more or less admitted that but the laws can be freely interpreted to suit the white councils purpose if they want to.

[Mira]

I think the Council isolated Harry so that either someone else can get rid of him for them, or they can squash him without a trial or political maneuvering if and when they feel the need to do so.

That may be true, but why is it that they won't tell Harry what task he was bred to do, by them I might add.  I still think Margaret put a huge monkey wrench in their plans when she chose Malcolm as the father.  That totally screwed up their calculations.  It could have been the White Council that ordered the murder of Malcolm and accounted for the stupid manner that young Harry was treated at the time.

Harry used fire magic to kill some Fomor servitors.  Personally, I don't see how those guys can be considered as fully human any longer, but that's how Jim wrote it; so, it is what it is.

Yes, and it was written that way to underline that the charges against Harry were trumped up to convict in a kangaroo court.  However the White Council also knows that many others of it's members killed Fomor servitors with magic and didn't want to execute them.. So they altered the sentence.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Agreed, to an extent the servitors had given up their free will to the Fomor, and I suspect in the Dresdenverse Free Will is the indicator of humanity.

[Mira]

Agreed, to an extent the servitors had given up their free will to the Fomor, and I suspect in the Dresdenverse Free Will is the indicator of humanity.

Then it comes down to in the case of the Turtlenecks, did they volunteer for it?  In which case their plight is the consequence of their own free choices.  However even so, once the choice is made and the physical and other changes happens, is the Turtleneck still human?  The same holds true even if it wasn't a free choice.  Take Mab, at some point in her life she was human, or perhaps maybe a changling with the free choice to chose her path..  Most would argue that now she is 99.99% fae and .01% human, if she is killed by magic this Halloween, did the wizard who did it violate the First Law of Magic?

[morriswalters]

The White Council can be summarized by this quote from Daniel Webster.

Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
        Daniel Webster
        US diplomat, lawyer, orator, & politician (1782 - 1852)

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Whether the servitors volunteered or not they no longer had free will. Listen a Starborn must be viewed as a separate case. The Fomor hated humanity, they will have made sure it was extinguished in their own ranks where possible.

[Mira]

The White Council can be summarized by this quote from Daniel Webster.

Here is another quote about good intentions that we are all familiar with, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."  So the White Council's intentions were and are good, but they are damning themselves in the process.

[Basil]

The Fomor Servitors suddenly getting to be human, makes little sense to me.  If the Fomor Servitors are human, how are the White Court Vampires not human as well?

Both are "humans" with something not human grafted onto them.  White Court have little free will in being so, or at least the way that Lord Raith ran things. 

[Mira]

The Fomor Servitors suddenly getting to be human, makes little sense to me.  If the Fomor Servitors are human, how are the White Court Vampires not human as well?

Both are "humans" with something not human grafted onto them.  White Court have little free will in being so, or at least the way that Lord Raith ran things.

They are not, but just enough to for the purpose of convicting Harry..

[forumghost]

They are not, but just enough to for the purpose of convicting Harry..

This, essentially. They were just an excuse for the Merlin to give Dresden the boot. If it had been Carlos that fire-balled a group of Turtlenecks, it'd have been totally legit.

[LostInTime]

I think the Merlin knew that letting Harry slip his leash would make him a more powerful force for good. The White Council can't do anything overt if Harry starts flouting the laws of magic. They'd run afoul of Mab, both as head of the Winter Court and as the enforcer behind the Winter Accords. Harry is already part of Winter and soon will be under the aegis of the White Court's protection. Kicking Harry out and threatening him with the Doom of Damocles is political posturing. The Black Council thinks they can use it to get Ebenezer killed, that's it. They have to recognize that when it comes to Harry, they're toothless.

It's going to suck for them when Ebenezer, as a last act of defiance, wills Harry to be the next Blackstaff.

[groinkick]

I think the Merlin knew that letting Harry slip his leash would make him a more powerful force for good. The White Council can't do anything overt if Harry starts flouting the laws of magic. They'd run afoul of Mab, both as head of the Winter Court and as the enforcer behind the Winter Accords. Harry is already part of Winter and soon will be under the aegis of the White Court's protection. Kicking Harry out and threatening him with the Doom of Damocles is political posturing. The Black Council thinks they can use it to get Ebenezer killed, that's it. They have to recognize that when it comes to Harry, they're toothless.

It's going to suck for them when Ebenezer, as a last act of defiance, wills Harry to be the next Blackstaff.

I think the Council was pushed into this.  Most don't want Dresden there, but I think pressure was applied.  Either from Mab, or maybe the Black Council.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Never underestimate the power of Harry to piss off authority figures.

The Merlin has wanted rid of Harry for a long time, recognising he is uncontrollable. Harry disappearing for 2 years must have been like his prayers answered.

[Mira]

Never underestimate the power of Harry to piss off authority figures.

He's made an art of it and prides himself on it, I think it might even be one of his star born powers.

The Merlin has wanted rid of Harry for a long time, recognising he is uncontrollable. Harry disappearing for 2 years must have been like his prayers answered.

Yup, ever since Harry bested him in that little political one on one back in Proven Guilty.  Which is another reason why he'd want it over and done without his allies present or more importantly, Harry present..  They couldn't kill him outright though, because the evidence they are using doesn't pass the smell test.  However he isn't above manipulating the likes of Carlos, who is suffering both physically and mentally from his contact with Molly and the loss of his friends. 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The Merlin is supposed to be the arch politician of the White Council, being outmanoeuvred by Harry must have been galling, like Nicodemus finding himself out doublecrossed by Harry, or when Lea got outsmarted by Harry with the mushroom poisoning, or Lord Raith having his weakness deduced by Harry and turned against him.

You know if they all compare notes Harry is toast.