True Teleportation

[Griffyn612]

Different types of teleportation? Different risks? This is a banned knowledge in the White Council and may be for a number of reasons.

1. It is lethal
2. It is difficult
3. It breaks one or more the laws of magic.

Classically teleportation actually invokes the destruction of the test subject and their reification in another place, essentially death and rebirth, a classic breach of the Fifth Law, meaning it’s both points 1 and 2. This may only have been realised some time AFTER it became known, leading to it’s proscription, after the formulation of the Laws. Point 2 was relevant at that point it probably required a powerful practioner, could end badly, be blocked easily by counterspells etc. The knowledge would have been lost at the practitioner level over time relegated to the library. Drakul must really have been annoyed that River Shoulders was an opponent old enough to know countermeasures. Same with Namshiel, he was old enough to know countermeasures to the countermeasures and it must have required considerable focus by him and Marcone to avoid it going badly against the Titan.

Harry made the escape potion in SF that was half speed, half teleportation. He didn't seem concerned about it being illegal. Or at least not that I recall.

I won't speculate on danger or difficulty, because Bob is beyond average wisdom and would negate a lot of concern there. But I'll point out that the phrasing Harry uses, "Is this the super speed one, or the teleportation one?", seems to imply that he's done both before.

I agree that most proposed methods of teleportation seem to skirt a law being broken. But only for sticklers like Morgan looking for an excuse.

Personally I like the idea of folding reality between two points to move between them. Like Harry describes Drakul as disappearing like behind a telephone pole. Just warping reality so that two non-congruent points are touching via magic, but without a visible doorway or portal.

I don't think that's what Drakul did, unless River's counter managed to unwarp reality. And Marcone's technique seemed to involve the hand pointing at the destination, which is more like movement than warping. Like he's physically representing his intention to "stop there".

[Second Aristh]

If I recall, Ferro was shutting down the earth, and Vadderung was shutting down everything above it. And at the time of Marcone's magic, Vadderung was laying on the ground half dead. So who knows if he was still shutting things down.

I was under the impression that the svartalves were guarding the earth and Ferro was guarding the NN entrances.  I'll check the books, though.

I felt my eyes widen. The barrier between the mortal world and the world of spirit was all that separated humanity from demons and devils and nightmarish creatures of literally every description. “Is it thin enough for anything to get through?”

“If it’s not,” Bob said ominously, “it will be. Right now, Ferrovax is holding that door closed. It’s enormously inefficient to do it from the Nevernever side. He won’t be able to keep it up forever without coming to this side, in his true form, and that would basically rip reality’s nuts off.”

“How long?” I asked. “Can he hold them out until dawn?”

“No one’s seen a confrontation this big for thousands of years, Harry,” Bob said, and his tone was outright worried. “The laws of magic change over time. I don’t know the answer to your question. I don’t think anyone else knows, either.”

“My contribution to the defenses must be subtle,” Ferrovax said. “To do otherwise would be to risk destroying more of the city than I save.” He nodded thoughtfully. “With Etri’s counsel and consent, I will close the underworld to them, prevent them from moving through or beneath the earth. One-Eye?”

Vadderung nodded slowly, evidently tracking Ferrovax’s line of thought. “I will close all the Ways to them within the city itself. Given who they are, that will leave them only one viable avenue of approach.”

It seems like there may be a continuity error there with who got what job.  Or possibly Ferro took on more as Odin took to the field directly.  It's not clear.

[Second Aristh]

Harry made the escape potion in SF that was half speed, half teleportation. He didn't seem concerned about it being illegal. Or at least not that I recall.

I won't speculate on danger or difficulty, because Bob is beyond average wisdom and would negate a lot of concern there. But I'll point out that the phrasing Harry uses, "Is this the super speed one, or the teleportation one?", seems to imply that he's done both before.

I agree that most proposed methods of teleportation seem to skirt a law being broken. But only for sticklers like Morgan looking for an excuse.

Personally I like the idea of folding reality between two points to move between them. Like Harry describes Drakul as disappearing like behind a telephone pole. Just warping reality so that two non-congruent points are touching via magic, but without a visible doorway or portal.

I don't think that's what Drakul did, unless River's counter managed to unwarp reality. And Marcone's technique seemed to involve the hand pointing at the destination, which is more like movement than warping. Like he's physically representing his intention to "stop there".

For River Shoulders, I could see his aura wave grounding out whatever theoretical reality warping Drakul was attempting.  That's kinda the sasquatch thing anyway.

[Griffyn612]

For River Shoulders, I could see his aura wave grounding out whatever theoretical reality warping Drakul was attempting.  That's kinda the sasquatch thing anyway.

Re-reading the fight scene, particularly Drakul stepping away from Rivers as he charges, and where he appears above Rivers as Harry hits him with power, his movement is more like flashstep from Bleach. Which is just high speed that's so fast it can't be seen. Faster than Aristedes could manage.

[Gman]

Teleportation may be risky and you could wind up in a wall or the earth even if you got the skill. Let's say a 1 percent failure rate for extremely skilled practitioner and a 20 percent failure rate for some one who can do it but lacks experience. Unless it is an emergency why risk dying?

[morriswalters]

Remember The Fly.  Maybe Namshiel was clearing the space when he pointed at each spot.

[Mira]

Remember The Fly.  Maybe Namshiel was clearing the space when he pointed at each spot.

The original?  Or the latest version of it..  I think the original was my favorite, in fact it was a love story with a very sad ending... "Helllllp me... Heelp meee...!"  So sad, be sure to check your system before you send your atoms though the air..

[Ed0517]

I think The Archive knows more than Eb, she knows everything written. So she knows the Council archives too.  Plus Eb is not a fine hand. But maybe it requires a great deal of power, power she did not have access to in the Shedd within a circle, whereas power was in the air at the battle. Then again, she takes the train to Chicago....

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Maybe she likes the train, she could have flown.

[Second Aristh]

I think The Archive knows more than Eb, she knows everything written. So she knows the Council archives too.  Plus Eb is not a fine hand. But maybe it requires a great deal of power, power she did not have access to in the Shedd within a circle, whereas power was in the air at the battle. Then again, she takes the train to Chicago....

The Archive has plenty of control and power.  Besides, Marcone pulling it off makes it seem like it doesn't take a ton of power, just a ton of control that Namshiel can handle on his end.  Marcone uses a series of weak shields against Ethniu instead of fewer strong shields like Harry might try.

At the moment, I'm thinking that true teleportation is very distance limited.  You extend personal power to your desired location, then you can pop over using whatever complex and easy to screw up spellwork required.  That way, the hellfire circle would prevent escape since the Archive couldn't extend power through it (i.e. can't get outside the circle).  It was good enough that escaping to the NN wasn't an option for the Archive either.

[Mira]

  Unless it is more like a transporter as in Star Trek, but that is using a device.

[Basil]

To a certain extent we are discussing semantics.  I think Marcone was doing "translocation" and not teleportation because he needed to have the two points he was traveling to in his line of sight when he began. 

As to why it is dangerous?  It could be simply super dangerous if you lack the knowledge and skill of a Fallen Angel.  I doubt that it breaks any Laws of Magic(tm) inherently.  The closest would seem to be the time law, but what paradox results? 

Drakul seemed to be simply faster than Harry or the others could perceive.  Aristedes was fast, but not so fast you couldn't see him, but instead faster than you could really react to (as a normal human). 

[groinkick]

Drakul seemed to be simply faster than Harry or the others could perceive.  Aristedes was fast, but not so fast you couldn't see him, but instead faster than you could really react to (as a normal human).

If Drakul was simply faster, how was River Shoulders able to shut down his ability to appear in different places?  If Drakul could actually move faster that one could see, why didn't he simply beat them all down more quickly than they could react?