Author Topic: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?  (Read 19824 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2021, 08:35:49 PM »
Dollars to donuts that the White Council is tempted to behead Chandler if he comes back from an alternate reality for breaking Laws.

That is incentive enough not to come back.  He may not have been threatened, but Chandler as a Warden knows how they think, especially under Langtry, chop first, ask questions later..

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2021, 09:37:55 PM »
It maybe just a thread, but the ease at which drakul flung him basically beyond reality gives another stitch to the idea each of the seven vampire courts comes from a violation/conjunction of one the laws of magic 🤔
Blamps already having to do with reaching beyond the outer gates imo. To give the original the ability to do so with ease...

Offline EBRIEN

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2021, 12:12:17 AM »
It maybe just a thread, but the ease at which drakul flung him basically beyond reality gives another stitch to the idea each of the seven vampire courts comes from a violation/conjunction of one the laws of magic 🤔
Blamps already having to do with reaching beyond the outer gates imo. To give the original the ability to do so with ease...

Wait...there are Seven? I thought 4--White Court, Black Court, Red Court (Presumed extinct except for the Eebs?), and Jade (little known and probably never to be seen.)

What did I miss?

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2021, 12:21:26 AM »
Wait...there are Seven? I thought 4--White Court, Black Court, Red Court (Presumed extinct except for the Eebs?), and Jade (little known and probably never to be seen.)

What did I miss?
WoJ says there are three others, but they're little more than mosquitoes.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline EBRIEN

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2021, 01:10:27 AM »
WoJ says there are three others, but they're little more than mosquitoes.

Thanks!

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #80 on: September 18, 2021, 03:22:08 AM »
WoJ says there are three others, but they're little more than mosquitoes.
Thanks!
I still like the idea that the seven vampire courts are from the seven continents.
  • Red Court - North America
  • White Court - Europe
  • Jade Court - Asia
  • Black Court - Possibly Africa via Ancient Egypt and Sekhmet
  • Yara-ma-yha-who? - Australia
  • Asema? - South America
  • White Walker?  :P - Antarctica

Offline Mira

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2021, 03:42:23 AM »
Quote
Black Court - Possibly Africa via Ancient Egypt and Sekhmet

The impression I get of the Black Court is their origin is Eastern Europe, of the vamps of the Dresdenverse we've met so far they seem to fit the classic image of the undead as described in
Dracula, which was based on even more ancient tales.  The Red Court as well, since they do seem to become bat like after they are turned.

 It's the White Court with their Hunger Demon and the feeding upon emotions that runs against type.  What also seems to set them apart from the other vamps is they are born not made.. In other words you cannot be turned into White Court vamp if fed upon, nor I think brought back to life as one if you are fed upon until death.  Their origins seem totally alien, going back to the feeling Harry got from Lord Raith when he tried to kill him back in Blood Rites, I wonder if their origin is the Outside?
 
Has Jim ever described how the members of the Jade Court act or what they feed upon?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 10:24:11 AM by Mira »

Offline Con

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2021, 06:42:47 AM »
Thanks!

Here's the WOJ on two of the others.

"The Malaysian version of the vampire is like some enormous hair mosquito that attacks infants in their coffins, and is a sort of spiritual hit man for hostile gods, delivering death and disease at their instruction."

"Africa has vampires, though they are often identified with snakes, "

Seventh is impossible to find, myth among myths.


Offline Griffyn612

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2021, 06:50:21 AM »
There might also be vampire types that don't have Courts. I could see feral-type creatures not having the numbers, organization, or mindset for such things.

Offline Con

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2021, 07:47:45 AM »
There might also be vampire types that don't have Courts. I could see feral-type creatures not having the numbers, organization, or mindset for such things.
Leanansidhe was originally fairly vampiric muse. Makes artist go crazy and feeds on their blood.

Redcap as well in the OG stories.

Ghouls could be considered somewhat vampiric.



Has Jim ever described how the members of the Jade Court act or what they feed upon?
Recent WOJ they feed on Breath.

Just that their extreme isolationist in the Yangtze Valley River. They're not sure whether this "Chin" thing is gonna work out letter alone 'China'.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 07:50:10 AM by Con »

Offline Mira

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #85 on: September 18, 2021, 10:27:23 AM »
There might also be vampire types that don't have Courts. I could see feral-type creatures not having the numbers, organization, or mindset for such things.

Or "vampire like" in behavior but not really vampires in the classic sense.

Offline groinkick

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #86 on: September 18, 2021, 07:32:39 PM »
My opinion on Vampires.

Their power is directly connected to how they feed, and how close they are to humans/mortality.  I believe that they feed on Spirit, which isn't the same as a persons soul.  I believe when it comes to humans they are made up of three parts.  Flesh, spirit, and soul.  The Flesh is the anchor to reality, and the spirit is the tether to the soul which is completely outside reality.  When the spirit is damaged, or weakened enough, the tether is lost, and the Soul travels on.  If the Flesh/Body is rendered dead, the Soul has no anchor to Earth, and the spirit/tether is left behind as a shade/ghost.

I believe the Vampires use the body as a vector to the spirit to feed on.

Black Court:  Most powerful.  Feed on flesh/death.  They kill a mortal whenever they feed, consuming all of the spirit.  Completely inhuman
Red Court: Second to the Black Court.  Feed on blood.  Usually not lethal but very damaging to the spirit.  Connected to humans, slightly
White Court:  Weaker than Black & Red Courts.  Feed on emotions through pleasure/fear/pain ect.  Not too invasive when feeding most of the time.  Much closer to humanity.  I will note that I believe Lord Raith, at peak power may have been approaching a level that would push him closer to the Red Court.  His kiss of death allowed him to devour an entire spirit, which I think is why he was so feared amongst his kind.
Jade Court:  Feeds on breath.  Not much is known about them.  My opinion is they are similar to the White Court in power and connection to humanity.  Slightly less human, or slightly more human.

I think the other Courts are all weaker.  The Black Court, and Red Courts really are the strongest in that their way of feeding is most damaging to both the body, and spirit, and also the most efficient.  Any other court that exists, I think, would be no stronger than the White Court, and their power level is determined by organization, reproduction, and collective cooperation.

I think that between the Black Court's personal power, and the Red & White Courts global footprint, there isn't much room for the weaker Courts.  The White's and Red's sucked up all the power, and influence, and it's unlikely they would share it.  So I think any other Court really doesn't have enough personal power, or ability to gain influence to matter much outside of maybe a small territory (like the Jade Court).

The Red Court is gone, but I think that power vacuum is being filled too quickly for the weaker courts to take advantage of it.


Other Courts feeding ideas:

Blue Court:  Feeds on sleep.  If they feed too heavily, the person dies in their sleep, and is seen as a natural death.  Some people become aware they are being fed on, and experience sleep paralysis, and the feeling someone is on top of them.  Science has explained this, but maybe not correctly :).  Not terribly effective in combat because they require you to be asleep to be effective.  If you are asleep, and they find you, you're in deep trouble.  A side effect of their feeding is you wake up feeling exhausted, and making you more vulnerable to their feeding the next time you sleep.

Gray Court:  Feeds on illness.  They like to hover around hospitals, and nursing homes.  They need the person to be weakened by illness, and then use that illness as a vector to the spirit.  They prey on the weak, and suffering, making them hated by all mortals who know of them.  They need to stay low because Wizards take great joy in eliminating them, and they aren't terribly powerful, weaker than the White Court, and not very effective against healthy people.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 07:58:53 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #87 on: September 19, 2021, 03:52:55 AM »
[1]If you go back and change something then your create a new future, a branch, [2]but you have to remain in the branch you started from because there is another you in that new branch.
[1]Time travel in the Dresden Files might not work that way. Choice makes new universes. Time travel that changes something might destroy that universe or rewrite it. It could create a new branch. It might create temporary deviations that eventually fold back in due to the conservation of history.

[2]Why do you have to go back to your branch? What if you kill the other you or are willing/capable to live in the same universe?

Follow the logic if you can find any in time travel.  They felt the echos of the attack.  But the attack never happened.  How could they feel the echo of an event that never took place? This is where the multiverse comes in.  The attack did happen somewhere.
It depends on whether the echos are of an attack (i.e., what we saw the Lady's doing) or of a successful attack (i.e., Demonreach exploding). The text isn't entirely clear which one it's referring to.

Yep, we agree. In any case Jim will do something different then either of us suspect. That's why he gets paid the big bucks.
I don't know (if that's why he gets paid the big bucks). A lot of the people who get paid big bucks write some painfully predictable stuff.

Dollars to donuts that the White Council is tempted to behead Chandler if he comes back from an alternate reality for breaking Laws.
Which one?

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #88 on: September 19, 2021, 04:53:25 AM »
My view of the vampire courts has always been colored by the specificity of 7 courts with three really fleshed out ones. I don't think 7 was a redundant number. I've tried to tie it to both the 7 deadly sins and 7 laws, which Might be loosely tied together as well.
BC- wrath they kill to feed. Reaching beyond the outer gates, they aren't what they were, and have apparent ties to necromancy and outsiders (depending on how you take lash's final conversation).
The heart, the source of passion (i.e. wrath) also happens to be their weakness..
Reds- gluttony, they devolve into their hunger, relying on the host's willpower.. weakness is stomach, gluttony? Transmogrification of others.
White's- lust, their demon can't control itself, relying on the host's willpower.. they could fall under invading minds or enthrallment. They've shown capable of both. Weakness to love.
Jade seems connected to pride, offhand. And most likely to me fall under necromancy, due to the origins of the actual jumping"zombie" myth it's loosely based on.
The big three, I wonder if aren't connected to the love/faith/hope and fear/despair/wrath triumvirates. Mostly because it would explain why they were more fleshed out in the story, they have more purpose.
An yea... I do silently look at the jade court under those circumstances and wonder about that sometimes wagged about 4th sword connection..
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 07:17:41 AM by The_Sibelis »

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?
« Reply #89 on: September 19, 2021, 06:51:36 AM »
Which one?
The time travel one.

Let's face it. Chandler showing up back in his original reality saying he accidentally ended up in a parallel universe and was stuck there for a year until he hitched a ride back with Harry... That's not going to go over well.