DragonCon 2021 Starborn or Star Born?

[morriswalters]

However while it seems clear cut, it isn't.  Remember in Cold Days and Harry had to figure out just when the attack on Demonreach was going to happen, except it might have already happened? Merlin made the prison in five different dimensions at the same time. 

So a couple of things with Chandler;  He's figured that bit out as well, so he warnings to Harry in Peace Talks were Harry's future but Chandler's past, nothing violated..

Or;  Back the Cold Days, the Outsiders have no problem with time travel, that is why their attack on Demonreach was so dangerous, from what time or dimension were they going to do it.. Oh man, Chandler is infected with Nemesis, can travel through time and is a trap for Harry.

Follow the logic if you can find any in time travel.  They felt the echos of the attack.  But the attack never happened.  How could they feel the echo of an event that never took place? This is where the multiverse comes in.  The attack did happen somewhere.  But it is also the reason you can't travel into the future or get any good info. Which future would you travel to and which future would your message come from. YMMV

Poorly supported speculation.(very poorly supported)

Jim's shown you how the Mothers see the future. As a cascade of possibilities. Mab and the other do something very similar in their fight in Battle Ground. The Mothers may be able to see more of the futures than either Mab or Odin because of where they might be in branching time. I think that closer to the Mother's cabin time hasn't split yet and the Mother's can see all the branches, where as Mab can only see the branch she is on.

[Mira]

Follow the logic if you can find any in time travel.  They felt the echos of the attack.  But the attack never happened.  How could they feel the echo of an event that never took place? This is where the multiverse comes in.  The attack did happen somewhere.  But it is also the reason you can't travel into the future or get any good info. Which future would you travel to and which future would your message come from. YMMV

Poorly supported speculation.(very poorly supported)

I don't like time travel stories for this reason, all I am saying is this is what Alfred with Bob simplifying presented to Harry in Cold Days.. Harry knew an attack was coming, but it was also possible that it already had happened..

[morriswalters]

Yep, we agree. In any case Jim will do something different then either of us suspect. That's why he gets paid the big bucks.

[groinkick]

I imagine Chandler's power to be a lot like Alex Verus.

Yeah I could see that.  Another reason why I think either he's working for Drakul, and being thrown through the portal was part of the plan, or he was abducted by Drakul. 

I don't see him escaping the situation. 

[Mira]

Yeah I could see that.  Another reason why I think either he's working for Drakul, and being thrown through the portal was part of the plan, or he was abducted by Drakul. 

I don't see him escaping the situation.

Or Drakul made a huge mistake by doing that,when he tossed Chandler through that portal, he in effect he threw the rabbit into the brier patch.

[groinkick]

Or Drakul made a huge mistake by doing that,when he tossed Chandler through that portal, he in effect he threw the rabbit into the brier patch.

If Chandler were a Michael, or Butters, or someone who's been around a lot, I could see it.  As he is right now?  I don't see it.  I see him either being an enemy in plain sight, or now a slave of Drakul. 

Either he got Carlos to assign him to the mission, or Carlos was manipulated into bringing him, in my opinion.  I believe Drakul wanted Chandler specifically which is why he wasn't killed like the others.  Either way, it wouldn't make much sense for Drakul to get him, only for Chandler to sneak away on his own.  If he does escape, it's because Drakul wanted him to (let him go).  Remember him mentioning that he sometimes promises people immortality?  Hmmmm

[EBRIEN]

If Chandler were a Michael, or Butters, or someone who's been around a lot, I could see it.  As he is right now?  I don't see it.  I see him either being an enemy in plain sight, or now a slave of Drakul. 

Either he got Carlos to assign him to the mission, or Carlos was manipulated into bringing him, in my opinion.  I believe Drakul wanted Chandler specifically which is why he wasn't killed like the others.  Either way, it wouldn't make much sense for Drakul to get him, only for Chandler to sneak away on his own.  If he does escape, it's because Drakul wanted him to (let him go).  Remember him mentioning that he sometimes promises people immortality?  Hmmmm

Umm....yep.Bad guy.

[The_Sibelis]

Mmm, have we considered, that drakul has the same sort of existence as Mab, in that she can speak to her alternates? This would make him match her power like the Woj says 🤔

[Mira]

If Chandler were a Michael, or Butters, or someone who's been around a lot, I could see it.  As he is right now?  I don't see it.  I see him either being an enemy in plain sight, or now a slave of Drakul. 

Either he got Carlos to assign him to the mission, or Carlos was manipulated into bringing him, in my opinion.  I believe Drakul wanted Chandler specifically which is why he wasn't killed like the others.  Either way, it wouldn't make much sense for Drakul to get him, only for Chandler to sneak away on his own.  If he does escape, it's because Drakul wanted him to (let him go).  Remember him mentioning that he sometimes promises people immortality?  Hmmmm

As he is right now?  What is he right now?  Do you mean before he was thrown into another dimension or after?  Escape only if Drakul wanted him to?  Same could be said for Harry, Carlos, Rivershoulders, Listens..  Do you mean Chandler promising immortality?  Or Drakul?  Becoming a vamp does that..

[morriswalters]

I imagine Chandler's power to be a lot like Alex Verus.

Everybody else in the book sees the future as a set of probabilities, so why not? However going into Mirror Mirror it might be better to ask which Chandler got tossed? Mirror Mirror takes away the certainty about who you're talking to whenever you talk to anyone.

[groinkick]

As he is right now?  What is he right now? 

I meant that as a character in the story.  If he were more of a main character, someone of importance to the story, I could see him getting away somehow.  I'm not saying he can't get out alive, but if he does it will be because Dresden saves him.  Just my opinion.

Escape only if Drakul wanted him to?  Same could be said for Harry, Carlos, Rivershoulders, Listens..

Yes.  Which is why I'm saying that he's not escaping from where he was sent.

Do you mean Chandler promising immortality?  Or Drakul?  Becoming a vamp does that..

Drakul said he sometimes offers people immortality (to see how they react).  I don't believe he's talking about turning someone into a walking corpse.  I think more like Lord Raith who appears un-killable.

[Mira]

Yes.  Which is why I'm saying that he's not escaping from where he was sent.

What if he can't because he isn't able?  Kind of like Harry in Ghost Story, his soul was sent on
a walk about by Uriel and there was no escaping it until Uriel decided that Harry had learned what he needed to learn.

[groinkick]

What if he can't because he isn't able?  Kind of like Harry in Ghost Story, his soul was sent on
a walk about by Uriel and there was no escaping it until Uriel decided that Harry had learned what he needed to learn.

Yeah it's difficult to say.  It wasn't a portal to the Never Never.  Chandler could have escaped.  He was sent somewhere else...  I'm wondering if he went where the the Corner Hounds come from...

[Mira]

Yeah it's difficult to say.  It wasn't a portal to the Never Never.  Chandler could have escaped.  He was sent somewhere else...  I'm wondering if he went where the the Corner Hounds come from...

Or if he has a similar mind set to Harry, he may think he can be the most effective fighting from where he was sent, or gathering information to help later.  Think how valuable he'd be to Harry if Harry does rescue him and he can provide information about Corner Hounds and such.  Stuff the White Council doesn't have access to, or if they do, are not willing to pass on to Harry.

[Griffyn612]

Dollars to donuts that the White Council is tempted to behead Chandler if he comes back from an alternate reality for breaking Laws.