Apocalypse is a frame of mind

[Snark Knight]

What Nic and HWWB are saying it is more of a slow rotting from with in.  Institutions are broken down little by little, loss of faith in those institutions, collapse from with in, the inability to resist outside attacks.

Huh. The popcorn, escapist wizard detective novels are getting kinda 'relevant message' after all. That's a bit of a disturbing take on it.

[Second Aristh]

Because he wanted it and he wanted to kill Harry.

But Nemesis wouldn't want reality to have such strong weapons at hand.  That would be a pure Nicodemus motivation.

[Mira]

But Nemesis wouldn't want reality to have such strong weapons at hand.  That would be a pure Nicodemus motivation.

Yes, but Nic wasn't working for Nemesis, he was outsmarted by a star born, he willing sacrificed his beloved daughter, and for what? 

[Second Aristh]

Yes, but Nic wasn't working for Nemesis, he was outsmarted by a star born, he willing sacrificed his beloved daughter, and for what?

Yeah... that's my point.   
Nic isn't working for Nemesis.  By attempting the heist in SG, Nic is acting against the goals of Nemesis.  The outcome being bad for Nic personally isn't really relevant.

[Mira]

Yeah... that's my point.   
Nic isn't working for Nemesis.  By attempting the heist in SG, Nic is acting against the goals of Nemesis.  The outcome being bad for Nic personally isn't really relevant.

Oh, I think ultimately it will be relevant, if it sets Nic on the road to redemption, he may quit the idea of apocalypse and become a valuable ally for Harry.. That is if Harry can accept the idea that Nic is redeemed..  Actually that is how I think it is shaping up, his daughter killed, Harry handing over the Grail to him, yup, look for Nic to join Harry against Nemesis.

[morriswalters]

I'm having a wisp of an idea that the Fallen were subject to attack by Besides. That they fell by the same mechanism that took Maeve. And that they were imprisoned in the coins for the same reason that Lea was frozen in ice at Arctis Tor.

[Second Aristh]

Oh, I think ultimately it will be relevant, if it sets Nic on the road to redemption, he may quit the idea of apocalypse and become a valuable ally for Harry.. That is if Harry can accept the idea that Nic is redeemed..  Actually that is how I think it is shaping up, his daughter killed, Harry handing over the Grail to him, yup, look for Nic to join Harry against Nemesis.

Will Deirdre be relevant in the future of the story?  Probably.  She's not relevant to whether or not Nic was a Nemesis agent in SG.

[Griffyn612]

Wait.

Wait.

What if... What if Nico is hosting Nemesis, and has been all along? What if he took up Anduriel's coin, but has never talked to Anduriel? What if Beside has been pretending to be Anduriel all along, and Nico has unknowingly been working for Beside all along?

We know Beside has been around for a long time, we know he's not much of a fighter (like Anduriel is said to be in Skin Game), Beside and Nico have both tried to recruit Harry, they've both said the apocalypse thing...

Nah, too complicated. It'd only work if the other coins couldn't know.

[The_Sibelis]

I think the real implication, is that it's anduriel who's working Nemesis through Nic then Isn't it?

[Yuillegan]

Wait.

Wait.

What if... What if Nico is hosting Nemesis, and has been all along? What if he took up Anduriel's coin, but has never talked to Anduriel? What if Beside has been pretending to be Anduriel all along, and Nico has unknowingly been working for Beside all along?

We know Beside has been around for a long time, we know he's not much of a fighter (like Anduriel is said to be in Skin Game), Beside and Nico have both tried to recruit Harry, they've both said the apocalypse thing...

Nah, too complicated. It'd only work if the other coins couldn't know.

It would be a nice twist but I don't think it could work, Griff.

The problem is that Mab has spoken to Anduriel and made bargains with it. If Fallen were able to be infected by Nemesis...well that's a way it could work. I think Anduriel is definitely in the picture given how others react to him - Kringle, the Knights, Mouse, Mab etc. But if Anduriel himself was tainted that would change things.

Because if Anduriel was tainted, it isn't certain anyone would know. Maybe none of them would. Even Uriel can't always tell.