Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?

[groinkick]

Mab told Harry that she and Uriel had a common enemy when Arctis Tor was attacked, and Harry believed it was Thorned Namshiel.  However Harry, who is pretty darn good with fire didn't think he could have done that kind of damage even with Hellfire, in the heart if Winter.  Has it actually been confirmed that Thorned Namshiel was the culprit?

[Con]

*shrug* Time Travel, Alt Universe, MANTLE

[psuedonym]

I have long thought this! There is no reason to believe it was TN, lots of coin holders use magic, i forget her name but she is Tessas second, she uses fire against Ivy in SmF why not Arctus Tor?

[Mira]

Mab told Harry that she and Uriel had a common enemy when Arctis Tor was attacked, and Harry believed it was Thorned Namshiel.  However Harry, who is pretty darn good with fire didn't think he could have done that kind of damage even with Hellfire, in the heart if Winter.  Has it actually been confirmed that Thorned Namshiel was the culprit?

Maybe he couldn't but then Harry isn't a fallen angel, there might be some things he just has no knowledge of.  Harry also constantly talks about older wizards who just through sheer experience and study are way more powerful than he is, well Thorny has thousands of years if not more on him.

[Second Aristh]

Thorned Namshiel was able to take Marcone from basically no magic to doing things Harry couldn't without major effort.  A host with a stronger baseline magical ability would likely be able to pull off some impressive feats.

I forget why we assumed that Namshiel was the prime suspect.  Probably because Uriel gave Harry soulfire during his first spat with him?  Also, Harry puts the spotlight on him for it during SmF, I think.

[morriswalters]

You know because Jim told you so. It's in Small Favor.  It's called back at the end of Battle Ground when Harry makes Mab aware that Marcone is hag ridden  by calling him Sir Baron.

[Ed0517]

I think the assumption is based on who could be that good to use that much fire in Winter. TN seems to qualify, where few do. One question, though - when did Harry turn in Lasciel? Could Hannah Ascher, a good fire mage even before taking up a coin, have picked her up and been the fire user? Lasciel is not as good as TN, but Hannah starts way above Marcone.   

[TheCuriousFan]

I think the assumption is based on who could be that good to use that much fire in Winter. TN seems to qualify, where few do. One question, though - when did Harry turn in Lasciel? Could Hannah Ascher, a good fire mage even before taking up a coin, have picked her up and been the fire user? Lasciel is not as good as TN, but Hannah starts way above Marcone.

He turned Lasciel in after White Night, the book after Proven Guilty, she then took it up some time (implied to be a few weeks or so) after Changes.

[Mira]

He turned Lasciel in after White Night, the book after Proven Guilty, she then took it up some time (implied to be a few weeks or so) after Changes.

After Changes or at the end of Proven Guilty?  Just before he turned the coin over to Father Forthill at the end of Proven Guilty he thought he heard Lash, that scared him so he got rid of the coin.  In Changes it is implied that it was Lasciel that goaded him into suicide, the coin still could have been locked away in Forthill's office.  I don't think she affected Harry after that, implied or otherwise.

[morriswalters]

I think the assumption is based on who could be that good to use that much fire in Winter. TN seems to qualify, where few do. One question, though - when did Harry turn in Lasciel? Could Hannah Ascher, a good fire mage even before taking up a coin, have picked her up and been the fire user? Lasciel is not as good as TN, but Hannah starts way above Marcone.

Thorned Namshiel used Hellfire to power the device used to trap Ivy at the Shedd Aquarium and to capture Marcone at the panic room. Evidently Lucifer gifted it to him, which let Uriel balance the scales by giving Harry Soul Fire to smite him. It's established that the ring is Hellfire early in Small Favor when Harry examines the site with Murphy.

“You gotta think that maybe there’s a matter of balance, here,” he said. “Maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly and immediately. Maybe another one was just quieter about it. Thinking long-term. Maybe he already gave you a hand.”

While any of the Denarians may be able to use Magic only one, other than Thorned Namshiel does, and she was taught by Namshiel.

The Knights carried away Namshiel’s coin, so Tessa has lost her sorcery teacher.

[Snark Knight]

While any of the Denarians may be able to use Magic only one, other than Thorned Namshiel does, and she was taught by Namshiel.

Two, actually. Rosanna favours Hellfire, and Tessa seems to have a broader range of abilities.

Lasciel with a future host traveling back in time to attack Arctis Tor is theoretically possible to keep in mind, too, but has essentially nothing to support it.

[Second Aristh]

Most if not all the Denarians use hellfire, don't they?  It's a standard tool for them.  (I want to say that Magog's fists once glowed with it, but can't find it at the moment.  Similar with Deirdre's hair tentacles.)

The implication in SmF was that the hellfire pentagram was powered by hellfire from Lucy directly.  Namshiel's ritual was to point out where to put it and to contain it.

While any of the Denarians may be able to use Magic only one, other than Thorned Namshiel does, and she was taught by Namshiel.

Cassius does also.  In fact many mook Denarians use magic.

Seven of them were going after Ivy with magic, and she was countering them. All of them.

[morriswalters]

All the Denarian's are magical by definition. Each has the magic contained in their alternate form. But only two use conventional magic, Lartessa and Namshiel.

Seven of them were going after Ivy with magic, and she was countering them. All of them.

Magog¹ had charged her as he had me, but she hadn’t slammed him to a stop with a brick wall. She’d trapped him inside some kind of frictionless bubble, and he was spinning uselessly in circles half an inch off the floor,

Deirdre’s² tangle of living locks danced with purple Saint Elmo’s fire

Rosanna³ launched more traditional lances of flame from her open palms

though the two more physical Denarians^4&5 who strained to force their way past the barrier of snapping sparks that formed whenever they tried to get close had far less luck. The Hellmaid’s flames scorched them badly.

The sixth, a wizened little thing that looked like a caricature of a woman carved from a dried tree root, seemed to be holding the end of a rope of liquid shadow that curled like a hungry serpent, darting now and then toward Ivy’s head.(possibly Cassius's coin)

But mostly she faced an amused-looking Tessa, who, apparently just for the fun of it, threw another thunderbolt at her now and again. That told me something right there. It told me Tessa was no punk sorceress.

This by the way is how Marcone becoming a White Council level Wizard is  justified. This is precisely what Namshiel did for Lartessa. 

I assume all their magic draws on hellfire including Marcone. But none of them could have thrown hellfire at Arctis Tor without help.

[Mira]

I assume all their magic draws on hellfire including Marcone. But none of them could have thrown hellfire at Arctis Tor without help.

You are ignoring the fact that Namshiel is a fallen angel, even if he isn't an archangel he can wield power beyond the comprehension of most.. So yes, Namshiel could do it without help in my opinion, angels without restraint [the Fallen don't play by the rules, that is why they are fallen] has the power to do it without help.

[Second Aristh]

All the Denarian's are magical by definition. Each has the magic contained in their alternate form. But only two use conventional magic, Lartessa and Namshiel.This by the way is how Marcone becoming a White Council level Wizard is  justified. This is precisely what Namshiel did for Lartessa. 

I assume all their magic draws on hellfire including Marcone. But none of them could have thrown hellfire at Arctis Tor without help.

I'm a bit confused.  More than Namshiel and Tessa are casting spells in the passages you quoted.  Are you saying that while all the Denarians are capable of using magic, and some of them actually do use magic, but only Namshiel is good enough at magic to be an Arctis Tor candidate?