Author Topic: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?  (Read 6639 times)

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2021, 09:31:47 AM »
Harry personally? Probably wouldn't want to go for it (if he even can as Mab's minion). The Paranet? They're very much a group that could develop into something that signs onto the accords.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2021, 01:27:45 PM »
Harry personally? Probably wouldn't want to go for it (if he even can as Mab's minion). The Paranet? They're very much a group that could develop into something that signs onto the accords.
I'm not sure there's enough time before the BAT for them to organize enough. Harry can't lead them because of his conflicted interests. Murphy had the free time but she ded. Molly's got a job, Butters has a job. The Alphas are Wardens-types, not Senior Council-types.

And I don't trust Kumori Elaine far enough to her, so...

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2021, 12:43:40 AM »
In answer to your question, Harry already is a member of the Accords. Twice in fact though one may be taken away now.
Skin Game page 206

I guess now you could change that to as Wizard of Chicago.

One has been taken away, and while he might have been in some ways subject to the accords, as Winter Knight he is NOT Sidhe, he is their AGENT.  Sort of like a civilian contractor to the Army. They may have some Army rules they have to follow, but they are not IN the Army.  This would let him BE a member. But Wizard of Chicago? Maybe Warden of Demonreach....

Offline vincentric

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2021, 01:35:07 AM »
One has been taken away, and while he might have been in some ways subject to the accords, as Winter Knight he is NOT Sidhe, he is their AGENT.  Sort of like a civilian contractor to the Army. They may have some Army rules they have to follow, but they are not IN the Army.  This would let him BE a member. But Wizard of Chicago? Maybe Warden of Demonreach....

I think marriage to Lara might be enough to get coverage from the White Court where the Accords are concerned.

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2021, 02:36:29 AM »
I think marriage to Lara might be enough to get coverage from the White Court where the Accords are concerned.

Maybe, maybe not. Attacking a single member may get excused, or require wergild. After all, what happened to the White Court when they killed Margaret? Nothing.  Or when they killed some of the Ordo Lebes? Harry would not be White Court ROYALTY as such, he would be a consort. "Be nice to Lara's toyboy" Now a signatory ... it's the difference between some foreign person kills a US tourist, and someone kills Biden. 

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2021, 02:49:54 AM »
Maybe, maybe not. Attacking a single member may get excused, or require wergild. After all, what happened to the White Court when they killed Margaret? Nothing.  Or when they killed some of the Ordo Lebes? Harry would not be White Court ROYALTY as such, he would be a consort. "Be nice to Lara's toyboy" Now a signatory ... it's the difference between some foreign person kills a US tourist, and someone kills Biden.
There was no evidence against Raith for Maggie's death.

As for the Ordo, the perpetrators were killed and Lara paid weregild to the victims' families. So they paid via the Accords.

If someone broke the Accords to attack him as an associate or asset of the White Court or Winter Court, they'd open themselves up to retaliation.

So, they'd have to do it very subtly.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2021, 02:51:05 AM »
I'm not sure there's enough time before the BAT for them to organize enough. Harry can't lead them because of his conflicted interests. Murphy had the free time but she ded. Molly's got a job, Butters has a job. The Alphas are Wardens-types, not Senior Council-types.

And I don't trust Kumori Elaine far enough to her, so...
RIP magic users if both the White Council and Paranet are utterly subverted.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2021, 04:40:35 AM »
RIP magic users if both the White Council and Paranet are utterly subverted.
Nah, nothing so dire. The Paranet isn't organized enough to become an Accorded nation, but I bet with the Librarians, a new organization could be formed.

Combine the funding and resources of a secret government organization with the grass-roots network and neighborhood watch-nature developed during the war with the fomor, and you've got the basis for a new faction.

They could probably scrounge up three sponsors, and set up The Congress of Practitioners or something.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2021, 02:33:16 PM »
Nah, nothing so dire. The Paranet isn't organized enough to become an Accorded nation, but I bet with the Librarians, a new organization could be formed.

Combine the funding and resources of a secret government organization with the grass-roots network and neighborhood watch-nature developed during the war with the fomor, and you've got the basis for a new faction.

They could probably scrounge up three sponsors, and set up The Congress of Practitioners or something.

The Accorded nations would have to respect such an organization if only because it could tell the military where to shoot. They could raise layered ward around important sites. Not strong enough to stop an incursion, but enough to slow the initial rush and summon security that would normally be stopped by hexed equipment. Just putting up circles around crucial areas is priceless.

I like this idea but it could quickly become unwieldy and I could see it fracturing into regional and national squabbles.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2021, 04:41:43 PM »
The Accorded nations would have to respect such an organization if only because it could tell the military where to shoot. They could raise layered ward around important sites. Not strong enough to stop an incursion, but enough to slow the initial rush and summon security that would normally be stopped by hexed equipment. Just putting up circles around crucial areas is priceless.

I like this idea but it could quickly become unwieldy and I could see it fracturing into regional and national squabbles.
I suppose it depends on the nature of the Librarians.

I like the idea of them being the current iteration of a timeless organization that has existed for nearly five thousand years, moving from continent to continent, collecting knowledge and artifacts but not getting involved because they understand the natural order of things, as well as that they are largely powerless in the face of such beings.

But they could also be an obnoxious, corrupt bureaucracy with over-confident, self-inflated mortals that think themselves superior because they know a bit about things others don't.

Given that Butcher has hinted at mortal resources being brought to bear against the supernatural, I'm inclined to think they'll be more like the former than the latter.

But so far we've every mortal authority (SI, CPD IA, FBI) all be asshats. If the agents seen in Dog Men are from the Librarians, then I'm not optimistic. If they're more like Agent Tilly, then maybe it'll work out

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2021, 01:15:19 AM »
I think there was a WOJ about whether the Paranet could sign up. Basically they'd have to win some fights before they'd build sufficient respect. Teaming up with the Librarians could help, but that's at best a long-term prospect since the Librarians are supposed to be really careful about not even being noticed by any supes. Plus, there's a national organization, and while the Paranet are centered in the US, they are to some extent trans-national - that's an additional dimension of obstacle.

Applying as a freeholding lord would also be tricky - the Council would lean on other signatories not to support him because it's an end-run around being expelled, and Marcone would exert similar pressure because signing up a Wizard of Chicago introduces uncertainty about whether Chicago is the territory of the Wizard or the Baron, and Mab's attitude toward it would be a coin-toss between liking a knight with a power base and disliking too much independence. 

Warden of Demonreach might have more juice to get recognized than Wizard of Chicago, but announcing that one any wider than it's already known is probably a bad move. He's not going to be able to sucker-punch anyone else too stupid or arrogant to realize the danger of imprisonment.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2021, 02:50:42 AM »
I think there was a WOJ about whether the Paranet could sign up. Basically they'd have to win some fights before they'd build sufficient respect. Teaming up with the Librarians could help, but that's at best a long-term prospect since the Librarians are supposed to be really careful about not even being noticed by any supes. Plus, there's a national organization, and while the Paranet are centered in the US, they are to some extent trans-national - that's an additional dimension of obstacle.

Applying as a freeholding lord would also be tricky - the Council would lean on other signatories not to support him because it's an end-run around being expelled, and Marcone would exert similar pressure because signing up a Wizard of Chicago introduces uncertainty about whether Chicago is the territory of the Wizard or the Baron, and Mab's attitude toward it would be a coin-toss between liking a knight with a power base and disliking too much independence. 

Warden of Demonreach might have more juice to get recognized than Wizard of Chicago, but announcing that one any wider than it's already known is probably a bad move. He's not going to be able to sucker-punch anyone else too stupid or arrogant to realize the danger of imprisonment.
I could see an Accorded Nations meeting, where a leader for the new Mortal Alliance requests membership, and Lara, Sarissa, and Ivy announce their support. And when a ghoul asks how the mortals can be taken seriously, Dresden steps forward and announces that he'll be the Security Director, and if anyone wants his credentials, to ask the Red King or the Last Titan.

And when someone doubts that he took her out, he can just snap his staff to the ground, make an empowered circle of fire, summon Ethniu from Demonreach without her power enabled, and say "No, really. Ask her."

And when everyone's silent, snap the staff again, and send her back.

I don't see many members putting up much of a protest after that.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2021, 05:22:48 AM »
I think there was a WOJ about whether the Paranet could sign up. Basically they'd have to win some fights before they'd build sufficient respect. Teaming up with the Librarians could help, but that's at best a long-term prospect since the Librarians are supposed to be really careful about not even being noticed by any supes. Plus, there's a national organization, and while the Paranet are centered in the US, they are to some extent trans-national - that's an additional dimension of obstacle.

Applying as a freeholding lord would also be tricky - the Council would lean on other signatories not to support him because it's an end-run around being expelled, and Marcone would exert similar pressure because signing up a Wizard of Chicago introduces uncertainty about whether Chicago is the territory of the Wizard or the Baron, and Mab's attitude toward it would be a coin-toss between liking a knight with a power base and disliking too much independence. 

Warden of Demonreach might have more juice to get recognized than Wizard of Chicago, but announcing that one any wider than it's already known is probably a bad move. He's not going to be able to sucker-punch anyone else too stupid or arrogant to realize the danger of imprisonment.
Quote
Priscellie: What would the Paranet have to do to be considered a big enough body to sign the accords? And this is from poly? granada?

Jim: Oh they'd have to win some fights, is what they'd have to do. At the end of the day, in the supernatural world, among the various political powers, what gets you respect is the ability to thrash them. And if you can do that then they have to take you seriously because if they don't then you can thrash them. So that would be what they would really have to do, it would be something, a very difficult thing for them to do. It'd take an awful lot of coordination and leadership so it would take an awful extreme situation for something like that to come together. And I can't imagine where in the Dresden Files universe an extreme situation like that might exist *smirks and lifts mug while Priscellie laughs*.

And yeah, the fact that they're expanding in an international direction complicates any attempt to become subservient to a US organisation.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 05:27:16 AM by TheCuriousFan »
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Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Could Harry become a signatory to the Accords?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2021, 10:14:34 AM »
Hasn't the council existed since quite a while before they possessed the blackstaff though? Was thinking they were at least 2k in current incarnation? An the blackstaff was generally thought to have been taken around the battle of Hastings?