I admit that I see characters from a raw power point of view, like Dresden apparently. Jim goes into more detail though, and it is interesting, and makes one have to look at things differently than a straight forward 1 on 1 fist fight.
sapph42: You’ve talked about beings who were on similar (or greater) power levels as Mab – Titania (obviously), Drakul, and Ferrovax to name a few. However, I believe that list was generated before Changes. Where does Odin fall on that list? Hypothetically (assuming they exist), where would entities such as Zeus or Quetzalcoatl fall?
Jim: Your question presupposes a linear hierarchy–which isn’t surprising, since the series has come from Harry’s viewpoint, and Harry is a straight-lines kind of thinker. Power is a much more nebulous thing than that, and something that is problematic to quantify. I think a reasonably simple argument could be made that Molly is a /much/ more powerful wizard than Dresden, for example. And in many situations, she probably is. Dresden tends to think in terms of “who would win this slugfest” when he’s dealing with the supernatural world because, well, of all the slugfests.
Odin isn’t gonna slugfest with you. He /could/. But that isn’t the Allfather’s style. Odin saw you coming last year, and he made his countermoves to what you’re doing right now a week and a half ago. For guys like him, fights are what happen when you /fail/ to win with /real/ power–knowledge and forethought.
Of course, sometimes everyone’s knowledge and forethought cancels each other’s actions out, and then it’s time to get all Monday Night Nitro. No one in the Dresden Files universe is really sure how that would shake out. But everyone on that level knows that they might be about to find out
Reading his comments make me think that Odin may not have hit the Titan with everything he had. He acted deliberately. He knew she'd claim his weapon, setting her up. He also wanted Dresden to end up with the Eye which wouldn't have been the case if he'd struck her down.
As I said when this theory was first floated, Gungnir's self-defence protocol is a
direct rip from Dungeons & Dragons Deities & Demigods 1st edition. Jim has told us that he was a big 1st edition player, and has an entire story about how he was asked to review 4e when it came out. He wasn't happy to say the least. But he also names his preference for 1e as that's what he started with. Anyway, the Odin in that manual for Deities and Demigods has Gungnir, which has the ability to transmogrify whoever touches it without Odin's permission. Jim obviously upgraded the defence protocol to something way more awesome, but he clearly borrowed the idea. As far as I am aware, there are no other works that have Gungnir having a defence mechanism. It doesn't have anything like that in the original myths either (it only was supposed to fly true when thrown and keep going until it found it's mark, and in some version wherever it was pointed war would break out or turn the tide of battle - hence "swaying one").
Jim is clearly aware of these myths too because that's what Gungnir does in Battle Ground. It turns the tide. Victory is actually achievable after that point.
So I believe Gungnir was built with such a fail-safe in mind, because that's how forward thinking Odin is. I don't believe Odin "knew" that Ethniu would pick it up though - he didn't even know Ethniu was going to appear! Odin prepares for as many scenarios as he can, even really bad ones. He wouldn't always know which enemy he might be facing (because lets be honest there is a hell of a lot of them). But he would know that one day something bigger and stronger will beat him and take his weapon, a very dangerous weapon. A god weapon. So he places a spell on it that activates when he commands, that does horrific damage to the thief.
Think of it like a gun with a small hidden explosive built-in. A crazy idea for us, but not for a god. Odin has the detonator (his magic) and if anyone steals his spear he just activates the spell (ideally at the worst moment for his enemy). I think it's very possible he waited to activate it. But I don't believe he knew that Ethniu would steal his spear. Is there any evidence in the text or from Jim that says otherwise?
The quote above from Jim actually proves the point - some of Odin's forethought was actually beaten. Otherwise, why didn't he prepare a lot earlier? Why did he wait for Ethniu and the Fomor to get the jump on him in Chicago? Why not bring his army there already, perhaps already have Harry ready to trap her? The answer is obvious. He didn't know. Mab didn't know. They suspected treachery might happen, but they didn't expect Ethniu to appear ready to fight (in Titanic Bronze I might add) with an army at her back. They likely thought assassinations, espionage, maybe a bombing might occur.
Of course, sometimes everyone’s knowledge and forethought cancels each other’s actions out, and then it’s time to get all Monday Night Nitro. No one in the Dresden Files universe is really sure how that would shake out. But everyone on that level knows that they might be about to find out.
That's what Battle Ground was - Monday Night Nitro. We saw Vadderung with his back against the wall, same for Mab and the others. We got to see what happens when everyone's forethought gets cancelled out. Also, Monday Night Nitro was a wrestling event in the 90s. Jim has said repeatedly that many gods that retired became pro-wrestlers (I am not sure if this will work or not...but I can't judge until I see Jim do it). Battle Ground has
several gods going to war (which is basically the tagline of MNN).
What is telling is at the end of Cold Days is the little talk between Kringle and Harry about whether or not Kringle let him win the little fight to take the lead of the Wild Hunt. On one hand Kringle said that no one "lets" someone win the fight for leadership, but on the other hand he didn't answer really when Harry asked if that meant he could kick his ass another time. I have to go back to read the exact wording but that is the gist of what I remember of the conversation to mean.
Don't forget Molly's latest short story "The Good People".
I cleared out of my parents’ house before Kringle was due to arrive. Kringle was an absolute grizzly bear about his territory, and not even the Winter Lady was willing to cross that old man on Christmas Eve–especially not after the Battle of Chicago. He’d gotten laid out along with virtually everyone else who had tried to go toe-to-toe with a Titan, and he hadn’t liked it.
I bolded the relevant bit. He got laid out.
It's completely speculative to say Odin "allowed" his spear to be stolen, as there isn't any passage from the text that even hints that was the case.
I don't think anyone was pulling punches. The Eye was a threat to the laws of reality itself. Newtonian chaos was about to break out on Earth. There was no do-over for this. There was no going back to the benches to figure out what to do next.
I don't see the big guns playing five-rounded Russian roulette with reality so Harry could have a big moment.
Exactly.
Battle Ground was the Battle Royal.
Agreed.
