2 Questions from PT & BG

[RobReece]

I don't know if these have been discussed yet, I haven't been on here much since the books came out.

1st question - Ivy, Especially since she dissolved her employment of Kincaid, Harry is the only "friend" that Ivy has.  Why was there absolutely no contact or conversation in either book between Harry and Ivy?  That seemed awfully strange to me....  Not sure what anyone else thought of it.

2nd question/observation - Namshiel, I think it was generally understood that Thorned Nam was the one who used Hellfire @ Arctis Tor and it was assumed that he'd been Nemfected.  But, in BG, IF, the nemfection affected both the host and the Fallen, then why would Baron Marcone with Namshiel riding shotgun be opposing the invasion and Ethniu so emphatically?   I think that if it was Thorned Nam at Arctis Tor, then we could possibly conclude that the nemfection doesn't touch the Fallen, just the host.  Either way, we could look at how hosts and Fallen interact if there is a difference in the goals they are working towards...

Thoughts?

[Dina]

Hi! This has been discussed here, yes. Of course, no one has THE answers.

 I certainly agree about Ivy. I think she was trying to be all objective and all that, but a passing nod or short smile would have make sense. Perhaps Ivy is angry at Harry for his suicide attempt but IIRC Harry himself did not try to interact with her, not even smile.

About Namshiel, well, everyone thinks that when Harry cold Marcone "Sir" Mab realized that he has a coin and that she suspects who is there. "Much is explained". Mab wouldn't be happy with Namshiel . But there is no explanation about what Namshiel intentions truly are, but apparently he and Ethniu don't like each other. So, it may be personal.

[bigdangmoose]

Ivy issue- she's mad at him for the suicide, thinking only of himself and hiring the only mlother man that is her friend.

Thorned issue- we assumed wrong that it was the fallen infected. By WoJ, an Angel can't be infected. But the host....

[Snark Knight]

Thorned issue- we assumed wrong that it was the fallen infected. By WoJ, an Angel can't be infected. But the host....

Was it basic angels who are too absolute and inflexible to infect, or just archangels?

But I've been wondering for a while whether Namshiel was framed by Tessa and/or Rosanna for the Arctis Tor hit.

[RobReece]

By WoJ, an Angel can't be infected. But the host....

I know we have to be careful with the WoJ, the interview I saw from this last Winter, when the question came up if Namshiel could have carried the Nemfection to Marcone, he was deliberately vague... (was in one of The Dresden Files Podcast) don't know the time stamp...

[Yuillegan]

In the interview with the Dresden Files podcast team right at the end one of them asks about whether Namshiel could be infected...and Jim just answers "That's a really interesting question!" "Could be a huge problem"

[morriswalters]

Everyone assumes that because he attacked Arctis Tor that he's off the reservation with a Walker.  But if everybody who does bad things is nemfected in the books, what's the point of it all? Maybe somebody offered him a better deal.

Ivy saved his life but she paid a price.  Kincaid was in close and she just may be moving people away now because she had gotten too involved.  Doesn't Luccio warn him of this?

[Mira]

Everyone assumes that because he attacked Arctis Tor that he's off the reservation with a Walker.  But if everybody who does bad things is nemfected in the books, what's the point of it all? Maybe somebody offered him a better deal.

Ivy saved his life but she paid a price.  Kincaid was in close and she just may be moving people away now because she had gotten too involved.  Doesn't Luccio warn him of this?

Yeah, I'm not sure that one of the Fallen can get infected, but perhaps it is possible for their host to get infected.

I also think that Ivy is maturing or realizes at any rate that as the Archive she cannot afford emotional connections to anyone.  Paradoxically her sudden standoffishness to Harry and rejection of Kincaid may be a total emotional reaction to the two people she ever cared about and felt hurt by.

[Ed0517]

I think Mira is right that the Fallen cannot be infected, they are too high up the power chain, angel level, but the host CAN.

Maybe... Ivy was simply too busy to chat with Harry, and vice versa? Preparations needed to be made. You'd also think he might have been interested to meet Cristos, since he was "who?" when he heard he made Senior.  But they did not seem to meet. Or she may just be a moody teenager. 

[Kindler]

We've seen the Denarians outright control their hosts before. Thorned Namshiel wasn't depicted in human form before the Marcone reveal, right? In Small Favor, he's transformed the whole time, as far as I can remember. Maybe he had to hijack the body completely during Proven Guilty.
Or maybe the host wasn't ever Infected to begin with, and has been playing a completely different game from the ones we've seen thus far.

[psuedonym]

Why are we certain it was TN who used the hell fire in arctus tor? Other coin bearers use magic, in SmF we see Rosanna use flame spells

[morriswalters]

Mab knew because she was at Arctis Tor and reveals her feelings on the matter in Small Favor.  It's also why Harry clues her to the fact that Marcone is hag ridden by referring to him as Sir Baron.

face. I took a breath, enjoying the moment. “Prove it,” I said. “Sir Baron.” Marcone eyed me. Then glanced past me to the Queen of Air and Darkness. Mab’s eyebrow went up so far that it threatened the line of her skull. Then she said, as if to Marcone, “Much is explained.”

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (pp. 384-385). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.