Starborn WAG

[seanham]

What if to create a Starborn part of the process (or the whole process) is that an Outsider (or part of an Outsider) needs to be joined with a human host/embryo. It makes sense that Starborn can hurt Outsiders more easily if they themselves were part Outsider. Sort of like what makes them strong also makes them weak. If this is true, then it makes sense why people like Morgan were against Harry. Because no one likes Outsiders and being even part Outsider could be seen as a very bad thing to some people. It also makes sense why LTW needs to talk with a lot of people before telling Harry because he needs to understand how/what to tell Harry. Because just telling him (or anyone else), "Hey Harry, you are part Outsider. You know the race of being that no one likes. Well, you are kinda one of them because your Mom and others want to use you for the greater good." Harry would not respond well to that. (Yes, LTW doesn't talk like that, but that's the gist of the conversation). One thing I'm unsure about is how 40,000 kids could be part Outsider. I could understand a few because someone summons the Outsider and then bonds the child embryo to it but having that many seem unlikely. Maybe at certain times, the Outsiders can cross the border of their own accord and choose their own hosts. And there are so few Starborn left because some people hunt Starborn (or Outsider hosts) because of the fear and lack of understanding of what Starborn are or what they have the potential to become.

[Yuillegan]

I think you're on the right track here even if there are missing pieces.

It makes sense when you think about it like Cold Days. Harry is told he can kill Mab as he wields Winter and "you can't protect against yourself". Which could well suggest the same thing is true for the Outsiders.

You're missing the Lucifer connection though. Jim has said that this starborn stuff started due to Lucifer's meddling at the beginning. Which makes sense, considering it happens every 666 years since the beginning apparently.

If the GUMCT is true, and Angels and TWG are also Outsiders of a different sort - then it could well be true in that way. Somehow starborns have angelic power (which is also Outsider power).

This connection doesn't explain why he is able to resist them though. Which I think is more to do with him being mortal.

Your theory would also explain the reactions of everyone who knows around him. It also explains why Jim says "Titania is nervous around Harry. Mab is keeping her enemies closer". It would also explain how Drakul is so monstrous AND a starborn.

[Griffyn612]

I got the impression that it was more like a window of time where there's a naturally occurring confluence of energy that bathes across the earth, and every newborn is exposed to it. If they end up having magical power, then they might have an ability to have their magic on equal terms between outsiders and insiders.

It's doesn't necessarily give them extra control over Outsiders; it just puts the mortal on the same footing as if they were performing magic on insiders.

[toodeep]

You're missing the Lucifer connection though. Jim has said that this starborn stuff started due to Lucifer's meddling at the beginning. Which makes sense, considering it happens every 666 years since the beginning apparently.

When did Jim say this?

[BrainFireBob]

What if to create a Starborn part of the process (or the whole process) is that an Outsider (or part of an Outsider) needs to be joined with a human host/embryo. It makes sense that Starborn can hurt Outsiders more easily if they themselves were part Outsider. Sort of like what makes them strong also makes them weak. If this is true, then it makes sense why people like Morgan were against Harry. Because no one likes Outsiders and being even part Outsider could be seen as a very bad thing to some people. It also makes sense why LTW needs to talk with a lot of people before telling Harry because he needs to understand how/what to tell Harry. Because just telling him (or anyone else), "Hey Harry, you are part Outsider. You know the race of being that no one likes. Well, you are kinda one of them because your Mom and others want to use you for the greater good." Harry would not respond well to that. (Yes, LTW doesn't talk like that, but that's the gist of the conversation). One thing I'm unsure about is how 40,000 kids could be part Outsider. I could understand a few because someone summons the Outsider and then bonds the child embryo to it but having that many seem unlikely. Maybe at certain times, the Outsiders can cross the border of their own accord and choose their own hosts. And there are so few Starborn left because some people hunt Starborn (or Outsider hosts) because of the fear and lack of understanding of what Starborn are or what they have the potential to become.

Starborn are born at the right confluence in time. There's nothing that says a starborn must have talent. If there are 40,000-60,000 starborn at the start of this cycle, that's something like a 4-6 hour window where they could have been born.

If starborn need at least some level of talent- well, we don't have the numbers to calculate that, but it does stretch the window a bit.

Bonus, it should make them easier to find. October 31st birthdays what, 1975? Narrows the pool considerably.

If I were to guess, I'd go with starborn having an ability to redefine reality- and either eject or permanently accept Outsiders thereby. Outsiders are outside reality, which is why magic doesn't do much to them. A starborn forming intent at an Outsider infiltration implicitly makes it part of reality, and therefore vulnerable to reality, insofar as it redefines them from "a projection from outside" to "that which I am punching and thereby is now subject to being punched." I'd also guess it cycled around to Lucifer, the Morning "Star", on some level- the first to rebel and change reality. Maybe starborn are echoes of what he did.  It would tie the Denarians in in a sideways manner.

[K.L.O.E.]

Starborn are born at the right confluence in time. There's nothing that says a starborn must have talent. If there are 40,000-60,000 starborn at the start of this cycle, that's something like a 4-6 hour window where they could have been born.

If starborn need at least some level of talent- well, we don't have the numbers to calculate that, but it does stretch the window a bit.

Bonus, it should make them easier to find. October 31st birthdays what, 1975? Narrows the pool considerably.

If I were to guess, I'd go with starborn having an ability to redefine reality- and either eject or permanently accept Outsiders thereby. Outsiders are outside reality, which is why magic doesn't do much to them. A starborn forming intent at an Outsider infiltration implicitly makes it part of reality, and therefore vulnerable to reality, insofar as it redefines them from "a projection from outside" to "that which I am punching and thereby is now subject to being punched." I'd also guess it cycled around to Lucifer, the Morning "Star", on some level- the first to rebel and change reality. Maybe starborn are echoes of what he did.  It would tie the Denarians in in a sideways manner.

This is my hill to die on but I firmly believe that the Starborn phenomenon is directly related to Lucifer losing his grace and that the "star" in question is his grace the Morning Star which was the light that drove out the Outsiders originally. Since the War in Heaven various forces realized a weapon against the Outside was needed they keep moving planets so that the Morning Star light gets redshifted to hit at the same interval. Every 666 years. In my head-canon the light is that of rebellion and free thought, which the outsiders can't tolerate so the Starborn become immune.

[Mira]

Starborn are born at the right confluence in time. There's nothing that says a starborn must have talent. If there are 40,000-60,000 starborn at the start of this cycle, that's something like a 4-6 hour window where they could have been born.

Yes, but for all of that, most grow up to be ordinary citizens... Being born under the right alignment of stars only lends potential to the child born under it.  A candle is just wax with a wick until someone lights it.  Harry was just a kid with talent that Justin had adopted and was training until that day he skipped class to be home with Elaine and Justin attempted to enthrall him, which led to his confrontation with HWWB, and the world has never been the same since for him.

[Griffyn612]

Starborn are born at the right confluence in time. There's nothing that says a starborn must have talent. If there are 40,000-60,000 starborn at the start of this cycle, that's something like a 4-6 hour window where they could have been born.

If starborn need at least some level of talent- well, we don't have the numbers to calculate that, but it does stretch the window a bit.

Eb says "for a few hours" every 666 years. The internet says there's 385,000 babies born per day, or 32,000 per hour.

If the average is 50,000 potential starborn born each time, then it stands to reason that Eb is correct that it's a couple hours, maybe up to three, every 666 years. The 40-60k variance could be due to lower birthing rates at night. (~25% less at night)

That would also go with Listen, who Harry describes in Ghost Story as not seeming to have talent, being a starborn.

The only thing that goes against it is an old statement from JB that Harry and Elaine didn't have the same birthday. So either he changed his mind, or the window was across midnight, or she wasn't actually a potential.

[Mira]

Eb says "for a few hours" every 666 years. The internet says there's 385,000 babies born per day, or 32,000 per hour.

If the average is 50,000 potential starborn born each time, then it stands to reason that Eb is correct that it's a couple hours, maybe up to three, every 666 years. The 40-60k variance could be due to lower birthing rates at night. (~25% less at night)

That would also go with Listen, who Harry describes in Ghost Story as not seeming to have talent, being a starborn.

The only thing that goes against it is an old statement from JB that Harry and Elaine didn't have the same birthday. So either he changed his mind, or the window was across midnight, or she wasn't actually a potential.

Agreed, I also think if there are so many of them, what is so special about them?  However here is another way to look at it, many babies are born every day with genius level I.Q.s, but very few for fill that promise or potential, and even fewer still are really remembered... As in there are many mathematicians and physicists with genius level intelligence, but very few of genius,as in Einstein,Newton, or Hawking..  Maybe it works the same way for star born?

[BrainFireBob]

Eb says "for a few hours" every 666 years. The internet says there's 385,000 babies born per day, or 32,000 per hour.

If the average is 50,000 potential starborn born each time, then it stands to reason that Eb is correct that it's a couple hours, maybe up to three, every 666 years. The 40-60k variance could be due to lower birthing rates at night. (~25% less at night)

That would also go with Listen, who Harry describes in Ghost Story as not seeming to have talent, being a starborn.

The only thing that goes against it is an old statement from JB that Harry and Elaine didn't have the same birthday. So either he changed his mind, or the window was across midnight, or she wasn't actually a potential.

Number I dug up was 250 babies/hour. And this would have been in 1975, with a lower population- 4 billion vs. 7.8. So the rate was lower then.

I go around on what Elaine really is. Could a starborn have been put on ice since the last cycle? Tinfoil hats want to know!

[Griffyn612]

Agreed, I also think if there are so many of them, what is so special about them?  However here is another way to look at it, many babies are born every day with genius level I.Q.s, but very few for fill that promise or potential, and even fewer still are really remembered... As in there are many mathematicians and physicists with genius level intelligence, but very few of genius,as in Einstein,Newton, or Hawking..  Maybe it works the same way for star born?

Pretty much. I think being born at a certain time is one component, but it's only one. I think there are others as well. Perhaps they have to be exposed to certain magics by a certain age. It's been speculated before that maybe they have to be exposed to outsider energy. That would reduce to the potentials significantly.

Number I dug up was 250 babies/hour. And this would have been in 1975, with a lower population- 4 billion vs. 7.8. So the rate was lower then.

I go around on what Elaine really is. Could a starborn have been put on ice since the last cycle? Tinfoil hats want to know!

Hmm, I'm not sure. This site
says there were right around 120 million born in 1975. That seems to be around 14k per hour. So four hours, maybe more if at night during a hours with lower averages, should cover the 40-60k.

[Arjan]

Time is only one component. Place can be another. In the Southern Hemisphere things are different

[Mira]

Time is only one component. Place can be another. In the Southern Hemisphere things are different

Somehow I don't think where you were born has that much to do with it.. However I do think events or circumstances can trigger full starborness..  That could be a matter, depending on how you look at it, as being in the right place at the right time kind of thing.

[Arjan]

Somehow I don't think where you were born has that much to do with it.. However I do think events or circumstances can trigger full starborness..  That could be a matter, depending on how you look at it, as being in the right place at the right time kind of thing.

Location and local culture seems to be of great importance how the supernatural expresses itself. The closest analogy is how to kill an immortal. Sure Halloween is a good bet but it was not the only point in space and time. The stone table worked as well and Harry did kill the red king and that was on a time and place especially important for the maya, not in a Celtic Holliday.

[groinkick]

Jim said that you need to be born at the right place (and time)...  So I'm wondering where this place was.  He also said that of the 40,000 Starborn, there aren't many left.  That's a lot of people to die in 40 or so years.  I wonder if Earth isn't the only place they can come from?  Perhaps some Starborn from the past weren't even humans, NeverNever Being's maybe...  This time around though was Earth.  This could be the first time mortal wizards have had access to the Starborn ability, or at least the first time in a while.