Young Wizards

[۞†Grey Warden†۞]

So just imagine, you looked up to this grizzled independent wizard who flaunted the White Councils orders to save people and do what's right.  He's a bit radical, but he is your hero, and friends with another famous young wizard, Carlos. All of a sudden you hear he has wiped out the Red Court. He is your absolute hero. You hear he has joined the Winter Court as the Winter Knight. If it were me, at that point I would assume he was undercover. I mean this dude has saved more lives than anyone you know. The White Council Oldies are all suspicious of him, but that doesn't bother you. He has been labeled as suspicious your whole wizard life. Nothing new. But then Carlos starts to be suspicious of him. Carlos who was good friends and also a young hero. You don't know what to think at this point. Is your faith in Dresden shaken?

[Mira]

[quoteSo just imagine, you looked up to this grizzled independent wizard who flaunted the White Councils orders to save people and do what's right.  He's a bit radical, but he is your hero, and friends with another famous young wizard, Carlos. All of a sudden you hear he has wiped out the Red Court.quote]

Carlos may not think that is such a bad thing, the Red Court and their allies, the Ghouls killed a lot of his fellow young Wardens, many of them friends I am sure.

You hear he has joined the Winter Court as the Winter Knight. If it were me, at that point I would assume he was undercover. I mean this dude has saved more lives than anyone you know. The White Council Oldies are all suspicious of him, but that doesn't bother you. He has been labeled as suspicious your whole wizard life. Nothing new. But then Carlos starts to be suspicious of him. Carlos who was good friends and also a young hero. You don't know what to think at this point. Is your faith in Dresden shaken?

Yeah, well, he is Winter Knight, his Lady and former apprentice, Molly, seduced him, then crippled him for life... I can see why his faith might be a bit shaken...

[۞†Grey Warden†۞]

Yeah, well, he is Winter Knight, his Lady and former apprentice, Molly, seduced him, then crippled him for life... I can see why his faith might be a bit shaken...

Wait are you talking about Harry's Faith?

I was talking about the random young unnamed wizards of the council

[Griffyn612]

If I'm a young wizard that has survived the Council being at war for fourteen years, in which time I've seen two Senior Council wizards murdered, the captain of the wardens body-swapped and demoted in duties before being accused of murder, her apprentice killed after being hunted for murder, two thirds of the wardens slaughtered, hundreds of innocent bystanders slain, other young talents turned warlock and beheaded without having been instructed on anything, and watched the impenetrable Council headquarters compromised twice in as many years by a mistfiend and plague curse with casualties on both occasions, with countless masters and apprentices dying around me in battles and assassinations, with rumors of dark wizards betraying the Council and breaking laws, all because one wizard drew the Council into a war because of a personal grudge with a vampire he didn't like, while he sleeps with another vampire and acts as executioner for the evil Sidhe queen and kills a Sidhe queen and performs necromancy without punishment and commits genocide of a species that leads to further upheaval and opens the door for another faction to gain power until they openly attack a major city and kill tens of thousands of humans...

At that point, as a young wizard turned nearly middle-aged battle-scarred veteran that just wants a break...

I've got no faith in any of them.

[Snark Knight]

I'd assume Harry's stock is in the tank with most of the wardens, for the same reason Butters' faith in him was shaken.

As the Fomor rose up, he took no hand in helping fight the good fight. I'm not sure it's public knowledge among the wardens that he killed the Reds and opened the niche for the fomor, but if so, that's all the worse.

And he's never explained to any of them why he was indisposed even after coming back from the almost dead, so he never got a chance to settle things like he did with Butters.

[Yuillegan]

Depends if I'd met him or one of those who would vouch for him, and my relationship to them. From the outside Harry looks pretty bad.

Then again, I'm not so sure if I wouldn't be trying to do my own thing anyway. So maybe I would sympathise. It's a complicated question. I'd need more information on the situation to make a more accurate guess. Not to mention knowing a bit more about the young wizard that I am.

[Mira]

Depends if I'd met him or one of those who would vouch for him, and my relationship to them. From the outside Harry looks pretty bad.

Then again, I'm not so sure if I wouldn't be trying to do my own thing anyway. So maybe I would sympathise. It's a complicated question. I'd need more information on the situation to make a more accurate guess. Not to mention knowing a bit more about the young wizard that I am.

 Carlos wasn't on Harry's side at all at the beginning of Peace Talks he secretly put that tracker on him.  Now the question is, was it just under orders?  I don't know that Harry looks all that bad, but he did come back from the "dead," be it only mostly dead after a year, in the minds of many that has to be very Kemmler like.  Humiliating Carlos at the talks, and him getting crippled after his encounter with Molly just put the cherry on top of the whole poop sunday.

[morriswalters]

So just imagine, you looked up to this grizzled independent wizard who flaunted the White Councils orders to save people and do what's right.  He's a bit radical, but he is your hero, and friends with another famous young wizard, Carlos. All of a sudden you hear he has wiped out the Red Court. He is your absolute hero. You hear he has joined the Winter Court as the Winter Knight. If it were me, at that point I would assume he was undercover. I mean this dude has saved more lives than anyone you know. The White Council Oldies are all suspicious of him, but that doesn't bother you. He has been labeled as suspicious your whole wizard life. Nothing new. But then Carlos starts to be suspicious of him. Carlos who was good friends and also a young hero. You don't know what to think at this point. Is your faith in Dresden shaken?

If you have brains it should be.

[groinkick]

So just imagine, you looked up to this grizzled independent wizard who flaunted the White Councils orders to save people and do what's right.  He's a bit radical, but he is your hero, and friends with another famous young wizard, Carlos. All of a sudden you hear he has wiped out the Red Court. He is your absolute hero. You hear he has joined the Winter Court as the Winter Knight. If it were me, at that point I would assume he was undercover. I mean this dude has saved more lives than anyone you know. The White Council Oldies are all suspicious of him, but that doesn't bother you. He has been labeled as suspicious your whole wizard life. Nothing new. But then Carlos starts to be suspicious of him. Carlos who was good friends and also a young hero. You don't know what to think at this point. Is your faith in Dresden shaken?

I guess it depends on the person in general.  Someone who had a ton of faith in Dresden would begin to lose trust in the Council, and would begin to see conspiracies (real or not real).  On the other hand they could become disillusioned with Harry and hate him, taking his changing as a type of betrayal.

I think Carlos is taking Harry's actions personally, and could turn them into serious enemies later...  Or maybe they develop a type of Langtry vs Eb relationship. 

[Mira]

I think Carlos is taking Harry's actions personally, and could turn them into serious enemies later

Yup, in the final interaction between them I got the feeling that Carlos was taking Harry's actions personally.  After all he was personally affected not just by the humiliation at the peace talks by Harry's actions, but crippled by his apprentice as well.  Carlos wasn't raised in palace intrigue like Harry was, he is an innocent, a straight shooter and a Warden, this makes him vulnerable to conspiracies, especially if spread by the Senior Council.

[groinkick]

Yup, in the final interaction between them I got the feeling that Carlos was taking Harry's actions personally.  After all he was personally affected not just by the humiliation at the peace talks by Harry's actions, but crippled by his apprentice as well.  Carlos wasn't raised in palace intrigue like Harry was, he is an innocent, a straight shooter and a Warden, this makes him vulnerable to conspiracies, especially if spread by the Senior Council.

Well I think Carlos completely understands what happened between him and Molly wasn't Harry's fault.  But yeah I think you're right.  He trusted Harry, and even though Harry would risk death to help him, he doesn't believe it.  I'm thinking that maybe wizards saw Maggie the same way, not realizing that she was doing questionable things but for the right reasons.

[Snark Knight]

Well I think Carlos completely understands what happened between him and Molly wasn't Harry's fault.

Not personally. But it was a hard lesson in 'what Winter turns people into' that he would have misinterpreted even worse than it was.

I don't think he was lucid enough to overhear Mab's explanation. As far as he's concerned, Molly was probably getting off on luring him into a hotel room and beating him within an inch of his life.

[TheCuriousFan]

Not personally. But it was a hard lesson in 'what Winter turns people into' that he would have misinterpreted even worse than it was.

I don't think he was lucid enough to overhear Mab's explanation. As far as he's concerned, Molly was probably getting off on luring him into a hotel room and beating him within an inch of his life.

And that was Molly after what, a week of being in Winter's clutches? Harry's been in their hands for years at this point.

[groinkick]

And that was Molly after what, a week of being in Winter's clutches? Harry's been in their hands for years at this point.

He did mention that everything changed since Harry got with Mab.  Jim needs to do some more side stories.  I'd love to see how Harry appears to Carlos...  I see Harry as the good guy because everything he does I know his motivations.  Seeing it from someone like Carlos who doesn't know everything that's going on could give an interesting point of view.  Seeing how scary Harry looks.

It's easy to forget that Harry is a nearly 7'0 foot ripped guy with scars, dark hair, and eyes, and sharp features...  Basically a guy you'd be scared of seeing in a dark alley...  Carlos has seen him do some nasty things.  Harry's inner dialogue he's exhausted, scared, and admits his magic isn't efficient, but all Carlos saw was a terrifying display of raw power.  A guy who chose a flame thrower to get rid of ants. 

[Mira]

It's easy to forget that Harry is a nearly 7'0 foot ripped guy with scars, dark hair, and eyes, and sharp features...  Basically a guy you'd be scared of seeing in a dark alley...  Carlos has seen him do some nasty things.  Harry's inner dialogue he's exhausted, scared, and admits his magic isn't efficient, but all Carlos saw was a terrifying display of raw power.  A guy who chose a flame thrower to get rid of ants. 

But as anyone knows who has had a serious infestation of ants, sometimes you need a flame thrower... You do, what you gotta do.. ::)LOL! 

But it was Carlos who secretly put the tracker on Harry in the very first chapter of Peace Talks.  So who was blowing good faith trust here?  I wonder would have Harry humiliated him like he did at the actual talks if Carlos hadn't done that to him?  Not to mention the third degree he had gotten earlier including the "yes, he had recent sex" test and the implications that it was Lara..

I still think the episode with Molly did serious damage to his perception of the Winter Court.  The person I blame for that is Mab, apparently she never schooled Molly on that aspect of being a Winter Lady.  I seriously doubt that Molly would have done that to Carlos if she had known.  However Carlos doesn't know that, and in his painful and weakened condition he became vulnerable to anyone in the Senior Council who really wanted to prejudice him against the Winter Court and by extension, Harry.