Who is Nicodemus?

[heidi_storage]

The text in church today was John 3:1-15, in which Pharisee and member of the Sanhedrin (the ruling body of Jews) Nicodemus visits Jesus by night and asks him about the kingdom of Heaven. This guy later provided a bunch of expensive spices for Jesus's burial. So...probably not "our" Nicodemus...but it'd be kind of intriguing (and awfully sad) if he were. Thoughts on Nicky's identity? We know he may have been around when Jesus walked the earth, and he knows how to drive a chariot.

[b4utoo]

Nicodemus said that he has a right to the Shroud not that it's his but a right to it

[Yuillegan]

There has been a bit of debate about this over the years.

On the one hand, it seems he does go by the name of at least one individual in the Bible. He also has been said to have been around for about 2000 years, and he wears the Noose (that Judas Iscariot used to hang himself). He shows a healthy interest in the Arma Christi, the artefacts associated with Christ, and he bears one of the 30 pieces of silver that were paid to Judas when he betrayed Jesus. In point of fact, he wields arguably Coin that bears the leader of the Fallen in the Coins and it seems Nicodemus and Anduriel have been leading the Denarians since their inception.

The other theory is that Nicodemus is actually Judas himself and that he either couldn't kill himself with the Noose, was cursed to live until Judgement Day, or made a deal with the Devil.

I am sure there are other theories out there but they are the main ones I remember.

[Snark Knight]

I tend towards the opinion that someone who makes a point to hunt down and destroy the Church's records on him every few centuries to remain mysterious to his adversaries probably isn't going to be openly wearing his real identity as a recorded biblical figure.

He probably appropriated the name as some mix of deflecting from his actual identity and a dark joke.

[Yuillegan]

I tend towards the opinion that someone who makes a point to hunt down and destroy the Church's records on him every few centuries to remain mysterious to his adversaries probably isn't going to be openly wearing his real identity as a recorded biblical figure.

He probably appropriated the name as some mix of deflecting from his actual identity and a dark joke.

Couldn't agree more.

What would be a nice twist would be if he was someone who was actually good in the Bible or something. Maybe John the Baptist or something...it's been done in other IPs.

[Mira]

What would be a nice twist would be if he was someone who was actually good in the Bible or something. Maybe John the Baptist or something...it's been done in other IPs.

Judas is a good candidate, here is another possible one, Thomas.  He is called "Doubting," I can see Nic getting seduced because of his constant questioning.

[Avernite]

Judas is a good candidate, here is another possible one, Thomas.  He is called "Doubting," I can see Nic getting seduced because of his constant questioning.

We already have a Thomas, and I can't believe Nic wouldn't goad about it in some way.

Course there's also Peter, who thrice denied Christ, Simon who was maybe a bit too zealous (and overzealousness leads to disillusion, and Harry having a teacher Simon might not be as obvious a goad), Paul who got his start persecuting Christians, 2 Jameses, etcetera ...

[Mira]

We already have a Thomas, and I can't believe Nic wouldn't goad about it in some way.

Course there's also Peter, who thrice denied Christ, Simon who was maybe a bit too zealous (and overzealousness leads to disillusion, and Harry having a teacher Simon might not be as obvious a goad), Paul who got his start persecuting Christians, 2 Jameses, etcetera ...

Who says he hasn't changed his name over the centuries?  So he could have been Thomas, even if he isn't now. 

[The_Sibelis]

Judas is a good candidate, here is another possible one, Thomas.  He is called "Doubting," I can see Nic getting seduced because of his constant questioning.

this is my most likely candidate. Can't recall who Doubting Thomas was also, Paul? But him being JC's potential brother has me weaving a similarity between the original story and the DF... And predicates the idea of 'rising' Thomas.

[heidi_storage]

James, not Judas, was the brother of Jesus. Thomas was the disciple who saw Jesus last; when the other disciples told him they'd seen the risen Jesus after His resurrection, Thomas didn't believe them. Jesus showed up and told Thomas to feel his wounds, whereupon Thomas said "My Lord and my God" and Jesus said those who don't see but believe are blessed.

I like the idea of Nicodemus being a Roman soldier. His remark about being able to drive chariots seems to fit.

[groinkick]

Here is something from the Interwebs


"Nicodemus could possibly be a reference to Saint Nicodemus[Footnote 4] from the Bible, who helped wrap Jesus in the Shroud of Turin. It's unknown whether the two are the same person, or if it's just a coincidence. Archleone means something similar to 'roaring lion', as described in: "the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."[Footnote 5]Archleone enjoyed this description when Dresden mentioned it."

The meaning of Nicodemus is Victory Of The People or, slightly more sinister; Victory Over The People

I think it was a brilliant decision to name him Nicodemus...  What is his goal?  victor for the people, or over the people?  His daughter said he wanted to save the world...  What did she really mean by that  What is his idea of saving the world?

[Yuillegan]

Here is something from the Interwebs


"Nicodemus could possibly be a reference to Saint Nicodemus[Footnote 4] from the Bible, who helped wrap Jesus in the Shroud of Turin. It's unknown whether the two are the same person, or if it's just a coincidence. Archleone means something similar to 'roaring lion', as described in: "the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."[Footnote 5]Archleone enjoyed this description when Dresden mentioned it."

The meaning of Nicodemus is Victory Of The People or, slightly more sinister; Victory Over The People

I think it was a brilliant decision to name him Nicodemus...  What is his goal?  victor for the people, or over the people?  His daughter said he wanted to save the world...  What did she really mean by that  What is his idea of saving the world?

This is very cool. Great find!

I agree, great choice of naming on Jim's part. That man does his research.

Why not both? For the people and over the people? Could be one and the same in his mind. He might believe he is saving humanity by ruling them, or even destroying them and starting again.

There was a WOJ that said that Nicodemus is more dangerous to Creation than Lucifer in some ways, because Lucifer still wants a universe. Seems to imply that Nicodemus isn't fussed if there is a universe or not.