More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....

[morriswalters]

I imagine a prepped spell set to activate at death. Mostly, because of its complexity. Not only did she make a solution to Raith, but she managed to throw in the visitation for if Harry and Thomas ever soul gazed. A twofer. Based entirely upon the idea her current baby would not only live, but would be wizard enough to activate a soul gaze. (Which puts the timeline for when she placed the spell beyond any time she was with Raith btw, had to have been formulated after she conceived)

Well this is idle speculation mind you, but she could have time traveled. Gone ahead, maybe with the Mothers help to see how the boys would turn out.  I mean, that once you buy into time travel, it's a solution that fixes all problems.

[Mira]

Well this is idle speculation mind you, but she could have time traveled. Gone ahead, maybe with the Mothers help to see how the boys would turn out.  I mean, that once you buy into time travel, it's a solution that fixes all problems.

But makes for very poor writing, the first time, good, the second time, okay, the third time, boring..

[The_Sibelis]

Or before she conceived,

what? No. Really? No. I just explained that. Also then nothing to latch the spell onto if he wasn't even a fetus.

[Mira]

what? No. Really? No. I just explained that. Also then nothing to latch the spell onto if he wasn't even a fetus.

 Something as complex as you describe is thought out ahead of time. I am saying she planned it all out the moment she decided to have a star born child with Malcolm.  If you want to fly to the moon, you have to dream, then you have to plan just how you are going to do it and who is going to help you plan, build the rocket, fly it, and get it back safely..   So she may have done all that you say, but I am saying it was all part of a plan that she had once she met Malcolm and decided to conceive Harry.

[The_Sibelis]

In that case, I'm disagreeing she'd ever be that callous and crass as to basically use someone who she supposedly fell in love with simply to make a starborn baby. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Mira]

In that case, I'm disagreeing she'd ever be that callous and crass as to basically use someone who she supposedly fell in love with simply to make a starborn baby. It doesn't make sense to me.

It wasn't callus or crass, she had Malcolm's full cooperation in the matter, though they both knew the burden this would put on Harry.  Margaret admits it to Harry when he sees her in his soul gaze with Thomas.  Also his father says pretty much the same thing in Dead Beat in Harry's dream.  Also Lash tells him in White Night;

"It is relevant," Lasciel said, "because of the circumstances of your birth--because ofwhy you were born, Harry.  Your mother found the strength to escape Lord Raith for a reason."

Harry is star born, but he is unlike any other star born because of who Margaret chose to be his father.  She conceived him for a reason, and she had the full cooperation of his father, the Winter Court, and I'd wager Rashid, Uriel may have had a hand in it as well.

[Arjan]

In that case, I'm disagreeing she'd ever be that callous and crass as to basically use someone who she supposedly fell in love with simply to make a starborn baby. It doesn't make sense to me.

She wanted a powerful child that could repair her mistakes for the good of the world. They can be really in love and a bit over ambitious for their child. I see no contradictions.

The world is full of loving mothers who want great things for their kids even if it is sometimes too great for them.

[The_Sibelis]

I don't agree it was ever planned out. You don't plan love, nor what follows from it. Heck, not even Jim is Godly enough in the DF to commit that fallicy. 

[Arjan]

I don't agree it was ever planned out. You don't plan love, nor what follows from it. Heck, not even Jim is Godly enough in the DF to commit that fallicy. 

The love was not planned but when it is there plans can be adapted.

[Mira]

The love was not planned but when it is there plans can be adapted.

Exactly, it was her love for Malcolm and the goodness of his heart that gave her hope for the world. That hope was Harry, but even hope has to be protected, a life is a fragile thing.  To give birth to a star born, the conditions have to be perfect, stars and planets in perfect alignment.  So if she wanted to give birth with that in mind, she had no choice, so that was planned.  Which is no different than couples everywhere trying to get pregnant, there is only a small window with egg and sperm are in the right spot to come together.  However there has got to be more to it, because children all over the world were conceived in the same moment Harry was, it is doubtful that they will all go on to be star born children..  Or they are, but events keep them very ordinary as they grow to adults.  So after meeting Malcolm, falling in love, seeing his good heart, she makes the first decision.  Then she has to explain to him what she wants, he has to agree.. That is the second decision.  Then why bring such a child into the world if you cannot keep it safe?  They and the child will need lots of help, that too has to be planned, or there is no point to bring him into the world..  Who can she turn to that she can trust? Now that is the tricky part, her circle of "friends" who would be able to keep Harry safe and not use him for evil or their own aims is very small.  She goes to Morgan, but while she can depend on his diligence, she also knows he can be persuaded and couldn't be trusted to keep the information from the Council.  She goes to the Winter Court and strikes a bargain with Mab, Lea is appointed godmother, but what did she give up for this protection?  It could be why Mab was so sure Harry would be her Knight one day, it was decided before he was born.  Rashid, I think was in on it also, he hinted at that to Harry back in Cold Days, and he has saved Harry's bacon more than once as a Senior Council member.

[Arjan]

But maybe luck was helped a bit by a certain archangel. The one that does nothing but when he is around the right choice suddenly gets rewarded disproportionally. Like that sword hilt that with a really strange curve just ended in the right hands. Margaret’s free willed choice to reject empty lust got her true love in stead.

[Mira]

But maybe luck was helped a bit by a certain archangel. The one that does nothing but when he is around the right choice suddenly gets rewarded disproportionally. Like that sword hilt that with a really strange curve just ended in the right hands. Margaret’s free willed choice to reject empty lust got her true love in stead.

I agree with that.  That is why I added Uriel to the list of those who helped Margaret.  The only thing that gave me pause was when "Jake" first shows up in Small Favor and we learn about the gift of Soul Fire, supposedly it was given because Harry rejected "Hell Fire" and the Shadow of Lasciel. But was that the only reason he showed up and Harry was given Soul Fire?

However having said that, it doesn't mean that Heaven wasn't in the business of breeding their own star child..  It isn't like it hasn't happened before, one could say that Jesus was a star child, but in His case, His Daddy was the Almighty.  Harry isn't that, but since it is all about "balance," at least two of the star children that we know of seem to be playing for the other side, Drakul, Listen, there may be others.  So when Malcolm showed up, he changed Margaret's outlook, result was a star child fighting for good..  Who knows, could Malcolm even been Uriel?  Or one of his brothers?  That could explain a lot..  Why the Denarians were so interested in Harry and attempted to get him on their side among other things.. And the "tests" of character that Harry has been put through.  Susan's reaction to the soul gaze, and Denton's as well, not unlike what Mac warned Harry about... A soul gaze with an angel can burn out your mind, now a scion of an archangel might not be quite so dangerous, but it could be a bit of a shock.

[Arjan]

Jim might not agree but according to the tales loving a human woman makes an angel fall. I always found that one a bit harsh.

[Mira]

Jim might not agree but according to the tales loving a human woman makes an angel fall. I always found that one a bit harsh.

That is the legend or myth that goes along with the type of angel Mac is, so Jim seems to be going with it.  However who says Mac totally fell?  I also think it is a bit more complicated that merely loving a human woman, or could be in Mac's case.  I think he made a choice.. Also depending on what version you read, the kind of angel Mac is, is kind of in-between, neither in the good graces of Heaven or completely fallen for what he did. 

Back to Uriel as possible daddy in Malcolm guise... I think if it did happen it would be a different thing all together than Mac.  Because if it's true, Uriel would have been working under orders from the Almighty.  The problem the likes of Mac ran into, was they weren't supposed to like the human ladies and have babies with them.

[morriswalters]

In that case, I'm disagreeing she'd ever be that callous and crass as to basically use someone who she supposedly fell in love with simply to make a starborn baby. It doesn't make sense to me.

She left Thomas who was five at the time with Raith , and by doing so made him a vampire.  She made Thomas the anchor for the spell  knowing that if Papa found out Thomas would get eaten by a demon. Pretty callous.

The timeline is hot and tight. Give or take, the timeline suggests that the events happened quickly.  Some things become at least plausible.  First that Malcolm was always the designated daddy. Picked by the conspirators. Margaret was pregnant when she ran.  That she could run because she fell in love with Malcolm and that fact broke the enthrallment put on by Raith.