Author Topic: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....  (Read 9395 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2021, 03:08:56 AM »
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Well that's a bold idea, Ebenezer killing his own daughter.  Though I'm not sure I can go along with it.  First, Ebenezer seemed shocked when Harry told him that Thomas is his grandson.  He seemed shocked that Margaret had sexual relations with Raith, though frankly, that's something that he should have been worried about.  Also, how would Eb know that Thomas was Margaret's first attempt at creating a starborn child?  It would also mean that Ebenezer was lying when he told Harry that Lord Raith killed Margaret.  That's a little more duplicitous than I believe Ebenezer to be.

If Eb knew they were going to lop off her head anyway, he might have, in an effort to protect Harry.. However while the Council seems to know that Margaret is Harry's mother, no one mentions or seems to know, with the exception of Rashid and perhaps Listens to Wind, that Eb is her father and and Harry's grandfather. Heck, in Blood Rites when he tells Harry a lot of stuff, he leaves out the fact that he is his grandfather.  He says the Council knew Harry was Margaret's son, but leaves out the fact that he is his grandfather.  Also weird, it the Council knew as you say that Eb was Harry's grandfather, would he still be under orders to kill him?

Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Eb wouldn't figured out that Margaret was having sex with Lord Raith.  Ariana figured out that Eb was Margaret's father during that dinner with her, Eb, and Lord Raith.  That screams of intimate family dinner type setting.. No, more like willful ignorance on Eb's part..  Oh your daughter is living with a guy, who happens to be the lord of vampires that live on sexual pleasure.. And if Eb was able to figure out they were having sex, he shouldn't have been terribly shocked that she had a child with him. 

As I said, my brain goes weird places before six in the morning with only a swallow or two of coffee.
But I can see Eb lying to Harry about killing his mother, who'd want to admit a thing like that?  Heck, when it comes down to it, while he elected not to, but would he have killed young Harry? He was under orders and if he thought it was really necessary.... So is Eb capable of killing his daughter and grandson?  You bet he is, that is why he is the Blackstaff.

Fact, Eb has either lied or kept a lot of stuff from Harry.  Eb has done a lot of bad stuff over the centuries, while the Blackstaff may protect him from black magic effects, it doesn't keep away the nightmares.  To protect itself the brain will block out a lot of unpleasant stuff, it is even conceivable that Eb blocked out any thought that Margaret was capable of having sex with Lord Raith, let alone having a son by him.  One one hand Eb is one of the most dangerous wizards on the planet, but at the same time he is showing signs of becoming a broken old man of 400 or so years.. 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 03:21:38 AM by Mira »

Offline Arjan

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2021, 03:49:56 AM »
In blood rites it is made quite clear that Raith killed Margaret not just by Eb but also by Rath himself and by Margaret who pointed her curse at him.
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Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2021, 10:42:20 AM »
In blood rites it is made quite clear that Raith killed Margaret not just by Eb but also by Rath himself and by Margaret who pointed her curse at him.

And Raith couldn't or wouldn't lie?  Here is another odd thing, Margaret clearly knew she was going to die for her actions.. Why else would she plant that message in the head of Thomas?  Odd don't you think that Raith would wait until Margaret gave birth, then killed her, but not the baby?  For that matter, since there are pictures of a pregnant Margaret in D.C., her and Malcolm didn't exactly go into hiding, so Raith could have her killed at any time.  How soon after Harry was born did Margaret die?  Even if she was a strong woman, she was pretty busy at that moment and threw such a clever death curse that did in Lord Raith when Eb wasn't able to touch him?  Or did that curse happen a lot earlier?  Blood Rites also showed us that Raith was able to get others to summon an Outsider to do what he wanted done.  Also if I remember correctly Lord Raith thought if he killed Thomas he could reverse the curse.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2021, 11:05:03 AM »
1 Eb doesn't actually know. He only knows it was an entropy curse. He assumes lord Raith, who has an entropy spell he's apparently known for.
2 when did Raith explicitly say such a thing?
The only solid information we have if that she was killed by an entropy curse, and it is as one of her old allies. Everything else is being assumed by watsonian means.

Offline Basil

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2021, 09:39:46 PM »
We don't Know that Raith killed Margaret, but he is certainly the most likely suspect.

First, he had an available blood channel to her -- Thomas.  Easy enough to take a bit of his blood and use it against Margaret. 

Second, he possesses an entropy curse ritual -- the very one that he was using in an attempt to control the porn company through murder.  It's likely that he killed Malcom Dresden with it later, as his dad died of an aneurysm.  While people do die of those, it's pretty rare and strange for a guy who was not that old.  (In fact, Harry is probably older than his dad when he died).  Maybe not as rare as being hit by a car while water-skiing. 

Third, he had motive to do so.  At minimum, she had abandoned the "cause" that had led her to join forces with him.   Moreover, she had "emasculated" him by breaking free of his control.  Given that power within the White Court is so political/face/manipulation based -- that could not have been good for his authority.

Fourth, he thought -- incorrectly -- that he would be protected from her Death Curse.  He'd had several wizards take him on and apparently the deal he made with the Outsiders protected him against even what McCoy would dish out.  She found the loophole though. 

Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2021, 03:49:09 AM »
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We don't Know that Raith killed Margaret, but he is certainly the most likely suspect.

True, but he could have killed her at any time, why wait until she had her baby?  Also she just had a baby, wizard, true, but the act has a physical effect, plus her mind would be full of her new child.. Plus how did she know it was Raith that was killing her?  Or was it a guess, and she decided to nail him anyway?

Offline Basil

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2021, 04:20:32 AM »
That is a good point.  Why did he wait?  It was seemingly a few years between her fleeing Raith and having Harry. 

Offline Arjan

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2021, 05:23:42 AM »
True, but he could have killed her at any time, why wait until she had her baby?  Also she just had a baby, wizard, true, but the act has a physical effect, plus her mind would be full of her new child.. Plus how did she know it was Raith that was killing her?  Or was it a guess, and she decided to nail him anyway?
The dead curse was not a spontaneous thing, it was prepared based on detailed knowledge about what lord Raith was and what he could do. It was ready and she must have recognized his magic and the curse coming just like Harry did in blood rites but she knew what it was and who directed it.

It was directed at her and she was in a vulnerable position. I think lord Raith waited until she was in a vulnerable position. Or this was not the first one and she had already survived a number of attempts and this one got her.
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2021, 07:57:11 AM »
In blood Rites Margaret doesn't say she threw her Death Curse.
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"I did what I could," my mother said. Her eyes flickered with something dark, an ancient spark of hatred. "I made sure that his father would endure a fitting punishment for what he did to us."

"You and Thomas?"

"And you, Harry.
The working was set on Thomas before she left. She may not have used her death curse at all.  My current thinking is that she muzzled Raiths demon through Thomas's.  She did it and split. I also assume she had help, perhaps Lea.  She may have given Harry to either Mab or Lea. When she delivered the child the note was called and the protection from Raith ceased and she died. She probably was in DC to talk to the Librarians. A White Court vampire may have killed Malcolm.  In White Knight when Molly does the thing with the body she reveals that the victim died happy, maybe with a smile on her face.  So maybe Lara or some other White did that deed.  If you want to go full tin hat Lara may know that under this scenario that if Thomas dies Raith is freed.  That'll do for me until I dream up something better.

Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2021, 11:01:00 AM »


  Oh wonderful, Lara confesses that she murdered Malcolm to Harry on their wedding night. 

Offline Arjan

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2021, 12:11:02 PM »
Oh I thought they could have a nice bonding session torturing papa Raith.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2021, 12:22:14 PM »
Margaret stayed with Raith for a few years. She had enough time to study him and his demon and see where the holes in the defense were.

And she did not break it, she plugged an entrance. She was subtle. She probably used her dead curse to do it but if it was just subtle and not big she could have done it when she left house. But if that was true Raith would have wanted her alive.
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Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2021, 02:46:32 PM »
Margaret stayed with Raith for a few years. She had enough time to study him and his demon and see where the holes in the defense were.

And she did not break it, she plugged an entrance. She was subtle. She probably used her dead curse to do it but if it was just subtle and not big she could have done it when she left house. But if that was true Raith would have wanted her alive.

Unless it was more subtle than even that, designed only to trigger if she was killed.  He might have been aware of that.. Or she did do it when she left and he ordered someone else to kill her.  The thing is most of the White Court seemingly were not aware of what had happened to him.  He remained very much in control until Blood Rites, when Lara realized fully how weak he really was.  He still remains the figure head though, which says a lot about how important appearances are to the White Court.  So Margaret could have put her spell on him when she left, and a weakening Lord Raith continued to run the show, as he did for years after supposedly he murdered her and she threw her death curse.

Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2021, 03:02:39 PM »
I imagine a prepped spell set to activate at death. Mostly, because of its complexity. Not only did she make a solution to Raith, but she managed to throw in the visitation for if Harry and Thomas ever soul gazed. A twofer. Based entirely upon the idea her current baby would not only live, but would be wizard enough to activate a soul gaze. (Which puts the timeline for when she placed the spell beyond any time she was with Raith btw, had to have been formulated after she conceived)

Offline Mira

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Re: More Questions, Sham, Cover Up....
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2021, 03:58:33 PM »
I imagine a prepped spell set to activate at death. Mostly, because of its complexity. Not only did she make a solution to Raith, but she managed to throw in the visitation for if Harry and Thomas ever soul gazed. A twofer. Based entirely upon the idea her current baby would not only live, but would be wizard enough to activate a soul gaze. (Which puts the timeline for when she placed the spell beyond any time she was with Raith btw, had to have been formulated after she conceived)

Or before she conceived, pre-planning is the ticket, no point in conceiving a star born if it wouldn't survive birth and survive until adulthood.. She also made a lot of plans with Lea, Mab,Morgan, and yes, sounds like Rashid as well to insure her child survived into adulthood..  Layers of protection, almost like knowing Morgan's nature, she couldn't be sure he'd always be there for Harry... So Lea steps up because he was elsewhere and perhaps was half convinced that Harry was infected and needed to be eliminated.