Erlking's purpose?

[Con]

So we get told repeatedly power has purpose. What's the Erlkings purpose for his power?

The Wild Hunt and King of the Goblins.

[b4utoo]

To rule the wildfae I think...or keep them in check. Breed warriors for the outter gates

[seanham]

Isn't he known as the Winter King? So kind of Mabs counterpart with the Wildfae? Mab's fae is "civilized" while the King's Wildfae is more uncivilized.

[Snark Knight]

Isn't he known as the Winter King?

No. Kringle is closer to Winter, and I think the Erlking is closer to Summer. But if it was anything so formal as a mantle of King, neither Kringle nor the Erlking would be wyldfae. The Queens of the seasonal courts are strong independent women who don't need no man.

The purpose of the wyldfae is still an open question, but they both sure seemed to jump on putting down the Outsider incursion in Cold Days, and the Erlking didn't have a problem with sinking the barges and killing summoner cultists. I'd guess one of their purposes might be engaging human Outsider cultists in large-scale battles. The Queens are supposed to be restricted from ordering targeted killing by their Fae retainers, and sending one Knight against a cult full of sorcerors with no backup would be a suicide mission.

[Mira]

No. Kringle is closer to Winter, and I think the Erlking is closer to Summer. But if it was anything so formal as a mantle of King, neither Kringle nor the Erlking would be wyldfae. The Queens of the seasonal courts are strong independent women who don't need no man.

Not quite true, I am not saying there haven't been female Knights, but so far the Knights of the Queens have all been male.  The Knights do their bidding, including killing those that Queens are forbidden to kill.

[Avernite]

I recall, but can't find back, a quote about the Queens being able to extract more warm bodies from among the wyldfae if they so require.

So perhaps the whole wyld serves as a kind of backup for the actual courts, and ergo, the Erlking's power is supposed to be a backup for the Queens in matters directly related to the Queens' purpose (and not say for Winter-Summer powergames).

[Yuillegan]

So we get told repeatedly power has purpose. What's the Erlkings purpose for his power?

The Wild Hunt and King of the Goblins.

I think that is true of power itself, specifically. But not necessarily of the bearer. I mean, Jim has said rituals like the Darkhallow and the summoning of all those ancient hunter spirits is how the Erlking became the Erlking in the first place...which suggests he might have been a much smaller being once upon a time. This says to me that the Erlking's motivations and purpose, at least in part, where about the accumulation of power and the right to rule rather than simply fulfilling a cosmic need.

That being said the Erlking's power might have specific obligations tied to it, just look at how much the Leanansidhe has incurred commensurate debt with the gaining of her own power.

I suspect Cowl wouldn't have had any obligations tied to his power (if he had completed the Darkhallow and become a god). But that's likely a black magic type of thing.

I also think this hints that certain beings that existed BEFORE time, like Odin and Ethniu and likely Mother Winter etc, don't have this issue in the same way. They brought their power with them, but the limits are that which were imposed on them by entering the universe. They may have also then acquired certain power over time, which may have had certain accountabilities attached, in order to overcome/workaround their natural limits. Like Vadderung taking additional mantles etc. (and yes I am aware he took that mantle to stay immortal after letting go of his natural immortality, as well as keeping him with power to influence things - but the method still stands).

[K.L.O.E.]

I think that is true of power itself, specifically. But not necessarily of the bearer. I mean, Jim has said rituals like the Darkhallow and the summoning of all those ancient hunter spirits is how the Erlking became the Erlking in the first place...which suggests he might have been a much small being once upon a time. This says to me that the Erlking's motivations and purpose, at least in part, where about the accumulation of power and the right to rule rather than simply fulfilling a cosmic need.

That being said the Erlking's power might have specific obligations tied to it, just look at how much the Leanansidhe has incurred commensurate debt with the gaining of her own power.

I suspect Cowl wouldn't have had any obligations tied to his power (if he had completed the Darkhallow and become a god). But that's likely a black magic type of thing.

I also think this hints that certain beings that existed BEFORE time, like Odin and Ethniu and likely Mother Winter etc, don't have this issue in the same way. They brought their power with them, but the limits are that which were imposed on them by entering the universe. They may have also then acquired certain power over time, which may have had certain accountabilities attached, in order to overcome/workaround their natural limits. Like Vadderung taking additional mantles etc. (and yes I am aware he took that mantle to stay immortal after letting go of his natural immortality, as well as keeping him with power to influence things - but the method still stands).

I agree with the second part of what you said re: Odin and the older beings. However I disagree with Cowl not having obligations after claiming the power of the Darkhallow.

If Cowl were to claim the Erlking's throne then he'd be bound by the Erlking's obligations (though after eating Chicago GodCowl  may be strong enough to get out of them). If the Darkhallow doesn't eat the Erlking in the process and GodCowl becomes a god of Necromancy instead I could easily see them having obligations to other death gods after stealing the harvest so to speak.

My personal theory on the Erlking's purpose was a ploy by Odin to eliminate the nastiest of the old forest spirits and lock the power into the cycle of the courts. This is why we don't see references to Herne the Hunter despite the Wild Hunt running around. Humanity gets safer without the old nasties and Odin gets an ally who owes him his power. Win win.

[BrainFireBob]

Not quite true, I am not saying there haven't been female Knights, but so far the Knights of the Queens have all been male.  The Knights do their bidding, including killing those that Queens are forbidden to kill.

Lily was the Summer Knight. Lily was female. That's where the mantle was hidden.

[BrainFireBob]

Isn't he known as the Winter King? So kind of Mabs counterpart with the Wildfae? Mab's fae is "civilized" while the King's Wildfae is more uncivilized.

He's Summer King, per WoJ- Kringle is Winter King. Kringle embodies the spirit of giving in Winter but is still Winter, Erlking apparently some form of "red in tooth in claw" or the joy of the hunt.

They're both Wyldfae, but associated with those courts most strongly.

Also, so I don't quote-crazy this thread: When Summer and Winter move to war, the Wyldfae are Called to the Court most in harmony with how they've been behaving recently. The dew drop fae used to be Summer aligned until Harry joined Winter. Toot explains it in his Toot-way.

One of the remaining linguistic questions I have from Summer Night is when Harry opens his bag and the dew drop faeries attack Aurora, Mab refers to him "Calling"- capitol C- them.

Did Jim mean:

1) When the Fae were "Called" to their Courts, what became the Guard went to Harry, so he stuffed them in his bag? This would mean they recognized him as their "court."
2) That the bag held box cutters, and Harry summoned them by Calling into the bag to attack Aurora?

As regards the big E: I agree his purpose- aside from referencing Labyrinth and the late great Bowie- is to provide focus for the goblin's mischief.

[Yuillegan]

I agree with the second part of what you said re: Odin and the older beings. However I disagree with Cowl not having obligations after claiming the power of the Darkhallow.

If Cowl were to claim the Erlking's throne then he'd be bound by the Erlking's obligations (though after eating Chicago GodCowl  may be strong enough to get out of them). If the Darkhallow doesn't eat the Erlking in the process and GodCowl becomes a god of Necromancy instead I could easily see them having obligations to other death gods after stealing the harvest so to speak.

My personal theory on the Erlking's purpose was a ploy by Odin to eliminate the nastiest of the old forest spirits and lock the power into the cycle of the courts. This is why we don't see references to Herne the Hunter despite the Wild Hunt running around. Humanity gets safer without the old nasties and Odin gets an ally who owes him his power. Win win.

I don't believe the Darkhallow would have consumed the Erlking. That's not it's job. The Erlking was summoned so that he could raise those old, powerful hunter spirits. Those spirits have much more metaphysical mass and when consumed in the Darkhallow would have allowed the recipient to become a much stronger god than they would have otherwise.

So I don't see how if Cowl had completed the Darkhallow he would have taken up the Erlking's obligations as the Erlking would have still been around to look after them.

I also don't see what obligations Cowl would have had to take on when becoming a god. From what I can see, the power of the Darkhallow is black magic based fuelled by powerful spirits. But what debt would have Cowl incurred? What responsibilities would he have taken up? I think the Darkhallow was the cheats method of becoming a god, and whoever completed it got the power without the responsibility. I could be wrong though.

Just FYI in Cold Days, Eldest Gruff calls the Erlking "Lord Herne" during Harry's birthday celebration at Arctis Tor. It's the only reference to it but it is there.

He's Summer King, per WoJ- Kringle is Winter King. Kringle embodies the spirit of giving in Winter but is still Winter, Erlking apparently some form of "red in tooth in claw" or the joy of the hunt.

They're both Wyldfae, but associated with those courts most strongly.

Jim has contradicted himself on this before. Initially that was what Jim said but later he also said the Erlking has Winter origins or something to that effect.

As you point out though, they are both Wyld Fae which means they can shift around a bit.

Did Jim mean:

1) When the Fae were "Called" to their Courts, what became the Guard went to Harry, so he stuffed them in his bag? This would mean they recognized him as their "court."
2) That the bag held box cutters, and Harry summoned them by Calling into the bag to attack Aurora?

As regards the big E: I agree his purpose- aside from referencing Labyrinth and the late great Bowie- is to provide focus for the goblin's mischief.

I think he meant the first one myself. But I can see how people might think the second one is true.

Yes, definitely a Labyrinth reference there.

[Basil]

Anyone else notice that there is an empty slot for a Winter King? And, Mab was making some Harry might become immortal references in BG? 

Kringle/Erlking/[Harry]
Mother Winter/Mab/Molly 

[K.L.O.E.]

I don't believe the Darkhallow would have consumed the Erlking. That's not it's job. The Erlking was summoned so that he could raise those old, powerful hunter spirits. Those spirits have much more metaphysical mass and when consumed in the Darkhallow would have allowed the recipient to become a much stronger god than they would have otherwise.

So I don't see how if Cowl had completed the Darkhallow he would have taken up the Erlking's obligations as the Erlking would have still been around to look after them.

I also don't see what obligations Cowl would have had to take on when becoming a god. From what I can see, the power of the Darkhallow is black magic based fuelled by powerful spirits. But what debt would have Cowl incurred? What responsibilities would he have taken up? I think the Darkhallow was the cheats method of becoming a god, and whoever completed it got the power without the responsibility. I could be wrong though.

If the Erlking was also an old hunting spirit why wouldn't he get eaten in the process?

My thoughts on the user of the Darkhallow ending up with responsibilities is that mostly seems to be an unintended effect of Godhood and acquiring that much power. At some point a bigger fish will come along and give you a to do list to keep you busy.

Just FYI in Cold Days, Eldest Gruff calls the Erlking "Lord Herne" during Harry's birthday celebration at Arctis Tor. It's the only reference to it but it is there.
Jim has contradicted himself on this before. Initially that was what Jim said but later he also said the Erlking has Winter origins or something to that effect.

As you point out though, they are both Wyld Fae which means they can shift around a bit.
I think he meant the first one myself. But I can see how people might think the second one is true.

Yes, definitely a Labyrinth reference there.

I'd missed that comment about Herne. I guess we know who he was before he ascended to Godhood.

Could Kringle and the Erlking actually be the Fall and Spring Kings? Transient between the seasons as Wyldfae and in Title? The borders of things seem to be important in the series and where else would the Wyldfae be but on the border of Winter and Summer?

[Yuillegan]

If the Erlking was also an old hunting spirit why wouldn't he get eaten in the process?

My thoughts on the user of the Darkhallow ending up with responsibilities is that mostly seems to be an unintended effect of Godhood and acquiring that much power. At some point a bigger fish will come along and give you a to do list to keep you busy.

I'd missed that comment about Herne. I guess we know who he was before he ascended to Godhood.

Could Kringle and the Erlking actually be the Fall and Spring Kings? Transient between the seasons as Wyldfae and in Title? The borders of things seem to be important in the series and where else would the Wyldfae be but on the border of Winter and Summer?

I don't think the Erlking is an old hunting spirit, at least not in the way those he summons are. They are ghosts. He is a faerie, chief of the goblins and quite possibly an old god in disguise.

I get what you're saying about Godhood. I considered it too. But I just can't see TWG or whoever giving a dark god of necromancy a to-do list, assuming they interacted at all.

I would like that, Fall and Spring King. Not sure it's actually the case but it sounds enjoyable.

[K.L.O.E.]

I don't think the Erlking is an old hunting spirit, at least not in the way those he summons are. They are ghosts. He is a faerie, chief of the goblins and quite possibly an old god in disguise.

I get what you're saying about Godhood. I considered it too. But I just can't see TWG or whoever giving a dark god of necromancy a to-do list, assuming they interacted at all.

I would like that, Fall and Spring King. Not sure it's actually the case but it sounds enjoyable.

Maybe the Erlking is Herne under the mask the same way Kringle is linked to the older sky gods?

I could see Hades or someone deciding to go have a chat. I doubt Uriel would but we still have yet to meet some other Death Gods who may be a bit cranky about a new competitor.

I hope there are some other seasonal types of Fae. May not be but I hope for it.