Author Topic: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..  (Read 7259 times)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 07:16:04 AM »
I think that Mab knew how the chips would fall between Dresden and the White Council.  She knows that Dresden, on his own would be a big target.  He'd have absolutely no protection.  As Lara's husband he'd be part of a member of the Accords again.  He could go places that would have to respect the laws, which wouldn't be the case if he wasn't.  Also to target him, would be to invite retribution from the White Court.  They might not love him, but to openly target him would be a sign of disrespect that would force them to respond. 

Mab knows this and this is why she wanted him with her.  Harry is most likely in danger from other members of the White Court, but it's better than being targeted by pretty much everyone from everywhere.
Harry is the winter knight and as such member of the accords. He is also a member of Mab’s court. Both offer serious protection in places that respect the laws of Mab’s accords. The white council is afraid enough not to pursue its death penalty. Lara would offer some extra protection but also dangers and even more problems with the white council and Eb in particular.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2021, 01:30:23 PM »
Harry is the winter knight and as such member of the accords. He is also a member of Mab’s court. Both offer serious protection in places that respect the laws of Mab’s accords. The white council is afraid enough not to pursue its death penalty. Lara would offer some extra protection but also dangers and even more problems with the white council and Eb in particular.

I cannot help but think there is more to it.  Protections for Harry? I think the way Mab would see it is if he cannot protect himself, she doesn't need him as a Knight.  I am thinking of the look Molly gave Lara, that Harry admits now that he missed when they came ashore after the battle with the Krackon
in Peace Talks.  I cannot help but think there is more to it than just her objection to the marriage, it is a set up of some kind by Mab and Lara.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 02:35:58 PM »
I cannot help but think there is more to it.  Protections for Harry? I think the way Mab would see it is if he cannot protect himself, she doesn't need him as a Knight.  I am thinking of the look Molly gave Lara, that Harry admits now that he missed when they came ashore after the battle with the Krackon
in Peace Talks.  I cannot help but think there is more to it than just her objection to the marriage, it is a set up of some kind by Mab and Lara.
That depends on the threat. We have already seen that Mab did protect Harry against feeding by Lara. I am sure that if someone out of Harry’s league breaks the accords by attacking Harry she will see it as an attack on her unless it is somehow Harry’s fault.

And of course Molly has problems with Lara now.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2021, 04:12:18 PM »
That depends on the threat. We have already seen that Mab did protect Harry against feeding by Lara. I am sure that if someone out of Harry’s league breaks the accords by attacking Harry she will see it as an attack on her unless it is somehow Harry’s fault.

And of course Molly has problems with Lara now.

I think feeding is the least of it.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2021, 04:21:27 PM »
I think feeding is the least of it.
Sure but it does show that Mab will protect her knight if she deems in necessary, if her hon or demands it or if she is simply obliged to do so. Harry is expected to handle certain threats but not something he can not be expected to handle on his own.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2021, 07:05:37 PM »
I cannot help but think there is more to it.  Protections for Harry? I think the way Mab would see it is if he cannot protect himself, she doesn't need him as a Knight.  I am thinking of the look Molly gave Lara, that Harry admits now that he missed when they came ashore after the battle with the Krackon
in Peace Talks.  I cannot help but think there is more to it than just her objection to the marriage, it is a set up of some kind by Mab and Lara.

Mab has the idea that if Dresden gets into trouble it's up to him to get out of it.  She's not stupid, she knows he has limits, and can be killed.  He's valuable to her, and she wants her weapon to be safe, for now.  so yes I think she would try to get him protection.
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Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2021, 07:17:23 PM »
I doubt that Mab really needs a marriage to cement an alliance, too. And I honestly can't wrap my head around why on earth would Mab want Lara as a successor.

I think that this might be about breaking both Molly and Harry, their relationship and their individual spirits. Maybe because indeed they working together could be a force to oppose her, her purpose or plan, anyway. But mostly, I think it might be about breaking Molly's spirit. It's clear that Molly is still hung up on Harry, and the whole thing with Carlos was already traumatic for her. And Molly is trying to remain human. But Mab probably thinks she needs to not make the same mistake she thinks she made with Maeve. She needs to make her successor strong, that successor is Molly. And for winter, that's through pain.

Mab needs to change both, Harry and Molly, toughen them up for what's coming, and that probably means breaking them, not apart, but from who they were before they took up the mantles, the people in their past and all of that
.

You make some very good points; however, Mab; like most of the really smart players in the supernatural world, often makes plans to fulfill multiple goals at the same time.  Some of these goals can be major; such as your suggestion that Mab is trying to mold Harry and Molly into the weapons she wants them to become.  Other, simpler goals could also part of the Winter Queen's agenda.  For example, there is a current thread questioning if the White Council will make an attempt against Harry's life in the next book.  It's possible Mab wants to draw any of Harry's would-be assassins out, to identify and get rid of them or suppress them while there aren't any major crisis's occurring.  Mab may also have a good reason or reasons for wanting the alliance with the White Court that hasn't been fully explained yet. 

If I was in Lara's shoes; wow, would my feet be uncomfortable, but mostly I would wonder what Mab's secondary or even tertiary goals are for agreeing to the alliance.  Knowing Mab, she not only believes the White Court can be useful for accomplishing some concrete goal, the White Court or Lara herself might make a good fall guy if Mab feels she might need one.  (It's too murky to predict specific reasons for Mab needing a fall guy, but it might involve members of the White Council or some other supernatural power getting killed and not having Winter implicated in their deaths.)     
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 07:22:27 PM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline AstralBlade

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2021, 08:43:43 PM »
I think Mab does need a marriage to cement this alliance. Bonds to kin are extremely important in Dresden Files, not only that, but alliances by mere agreements or concessions can but subverted through treachery. The type of treachery that a lone or subverted individual might initiate to implicate an entire organization ala The White Court's financial dealings tied to La Fortier's murder, which Mai views suspiciously. This despite both factions being in a cease-fire or state of neutrality.

A marriage however? That reduces any form of treachery as work of a traitor or lone wolf by the very nature of both Courts being tied as kin. Any attack against kin is viewed as an attack against one's own self interest. Especially a marriage between two members of the Accords where old school rules and obligations apply. Only someone acting *against* the will, and self interest of their respective organizations would dare do that. An example of this is shown in White Night, where despite the stand down order of the White King, two opposing internal factions disobey those orders under pretense of acting in the best interest of the entire White Court, thus giving them a pass until Dresden calls them out. A marriage between factions closes that loophole.

Offline bigdangmoose

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2021, 10:13:12 PM »
It's not Mab that needs this alliance, though it will work out well for her. It's Lara.

Lara knows something is coming and wants in on the ground floor and knows Harry is a key component. She wants a place at the table.

Now, as for Mab, just because she told Lara not to eat her Knight doesn't mean she doesn't want her to try. It may be what Mab wants to make Harry more pliable to her wants without Harry realizing that it is happening. Lara is the type of person to try just because she was told not to.
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Offline Gman

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2021, 01:00:30 AM »
Mab wants Harry to be more compliant with Mab not having a second boss, Lara. I think part of Mab likes that Harry is a bit defiant.

Offline Mira

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2021, 12:44:23 PM »
Mab wants Harry to be more compliant with Mab not having a second boss, Lara. I think part of Mab likes that Harry is a bit defiant.

As I said, I don't see Lara's agenda always being that of Mab.. I also don't see Harry going along with Lara at every turn either.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2021, 07:28:44 PM »
It's not Mab that needs this alliance, though it will work out well for her. It's Lara.
Glad to see somebody else sees this.  Papa Raith is dying or he's coming back.  Pick your poison. Either way it will put Lara under the gun. In addition something connects them out of the past, I just won't live to see what.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2021, 08:35:29 PM »
Glad to see somebody else sees this.  Papa Raith is dying or he's coming back.  Pick your poison. Either way it will put Lara under the gun. In addition something connects them out of the past, I just won't live to see what.
A confrontation between Harry and Papa Raith could be fun.
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Offline bigdangmoose

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2021, 09:39:38 PM »
Glad to see somebody else sees this.  Papa Raith is dying or he's coming back.  Pick your poison. Either way it will put Lara under the gun. In addition something connects them out of the past, I just won't live to see what.

You know, I was just thinking the other day about how Papa Raith was surviving without feeding. We see Thomas in PT being thrashed to an inch of his life, his body healing, being thrashed again, over and over until his reserves are spent and his body is eating itself. How is Papa not in the state that Thomas is in after everything he has gone through since BR.

Also, believe. Your going to see the end of the series.  ;D
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Another Thought on Mab's Proposed Union Between Harry and Lara..
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2021, 10:39:15 PM »
Glad to see somebody else sees this.  Papa Raith is dying or he's coming back.  Pick your poison. Either way it will put Lara under the gun.


Makes me wonder how well the curse on him is going to hold up with Thomas in stasis and Harry pulled away to the Mirror world.

A lot is going to be riding on whether Maggie and Thomas' nem-baby can sustain it via their bloodline to Maggie Sr.