Think the White Council will make an attempt?

[Basil]

I don't know if the White Council will actually try to whack Harry.  The whole expulsion of Harry looks very bad and did not at all go the way Harry seems to think it did.

(1)  Langtry forced the vote while McCoy and LTW were down for the count.  It seems likely that Rashid was absent as well.  He is often absent and we know the Outer Gates were under assault during the events of Battleground.  These three are Harry's most consistent supporters.  The pre-texts probably don't matter much to Rashid.  Rashid is practically a part of Winter himself, given the fact that they guard the Gates.  As for using lethal magic on the nominally human servants of the Fomor... that's garbage as well.  They have a recognized exception for self-defense and Harry was in a war against those nominally human servants of the Fomor -- one that they started.  Killing the enemy in war is not murder.   

(2) Christos may also have been absent.  We are told that he was very badly injured himself.  Because Carlos doesn't mention him to Harry, we are meant to assume that Christos is anti-Harry, but we actually don't know that. 

(2A) We don't know if Liberty attended either. She was at the battle, but I don't recall her status at the end. 

(3)  Given these 3 - 4, maybe even 5 absences, a "unanimous" vote to expel Harry would be easily achieve.  We know of the way the Senior Council functions and specifically that Langtry held the proxies of every absent member.  Mai is also in his pocket and very anti-Harry.

(4) The vote and meeting was an absolute mess.  We know this at least because Carlos is mentioned as having been "shouting."  Even if one did not like Harry, and even wanted him out, one could still object to the obvious injustice of holding the meeting without McCoy, LTW and Rashid to speak on behalf of Harry, to say nothing of Harry himself. 

(5) The outcome reeks of Langtry's attempts to "compromise."  Harry is out supposedly because he's a black wizard, but then they suspend the sentence?  Then task the one man in the council that you can be sure won't kill Harry with the job of cleaning up, if needed.  Give me a break.

In the end, I think it more likely that Langtry believes this maneuver will give him some much needed leverage over Harry: Do this/Don't do that and we'll reconsider.   

[Arjan]

at point 1 no. Killing people in battle is not self defense, you can flee. The real question is do think those servitors are human.

[Basil]

I agree that a question is whether the Turtlenecks qualify as human.  As we know, they don't seem to consider the White Court vampires as human, even though they are very nearly human.

But, there definitely is a self-defense exception to the First Law.  Given that, I cannot see how opposing armies in actual combat situations would not be considered within that exception. 

Here's Storm Front:

Of course, it made sense, from Morgan’s narrow and single-minded point of view. A wizard had killed someone. I was a wizard who had already been convicted of killing another with magic, even if the self-defense clause had kept me from being executed. Cops looked for people who had already committed crimes before they started looking for other culprits. Morgan was just another kind of cop, as far as I was concerned.

Butcher, Jim. Storm Front (The Dresden Files, Book 1) (p. 75). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Summer Knight:

But some of the other wizards had thought I deserved lenience, and there was a precedent for using lethal magic in self-defense against the black arts. I’d been put on a kind of horrible probation instead, with any further infraction against the Laws punishable by immediate summary judgement. But I’d also been sixteen, and legally a minor, which meant I had to go someplace—preferably where the Council could keep an eye on me and where I could learn better control of my powers.

Butcher, Jim. Summer Knight (The Dresden Files, Book 4) (p. 39). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

[Avernite]

I agree that a question is whether the Turtlenecks qualify as human.  As we know, they don't seem to consider the White Court vampires as human, even though they are very nearly human.

But, there definitely is a self-defense exception to the First Law.  Given that, I cannot see how opposing armies in actual combat situations would not be considered within that exception. 

Here's Storm Front:

Butcher, Jim. Storm Front (The Dresden Files, Book 1) (p. 75). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Summer Knight:

Butcher, Jim. Summer Knight (The Dresden Files, Book 4) (p. 39). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

I would say instead that that all shows there's a current of WC thought that such an exception exists, but there's serious pushback against it (hence why Harry was on harsh probation and not cleared; the hardliners needed to be appeased).

[Arjan]

In changes Ebenezer used the blackstaf to kill a lot of human mercenaries during battle. That was black magic and Harry was shocked.

If wizards were allowed to use magic in battle the whole dresdenverse would be quite different. If the servitors were really humans Harry had to find another solution or simply had to leave his people to die. Veil and slip away. That is how listen to winds people probably died. That is how it works.

The seven laws are not about morality or good and evil. Not directly as we see them in this universe anyway.

And we never have seen self defense as a reason someone did not break the law. Harry was convicted.

[The_Sibelis]

I think Jim said that Twelve Months will be about Harry dating Lara, and having to survive attempts on his life.  Do you think any of these attempts will actually be done by wizards of the White Council?

oh they'll try. No doubt through oblique or expendable means... I mean, who else was navigating the ways to try to send stuff from the NN side into his apartment?🤔🧐 Someone amongst them has already tried..
I think they won't send the ace in the hole until after MM though. Eb himself.. although I think

(click to show/hide)

Eb will be an inversion of the classic killing your evil grandfather/father mythos. Eb will let him win, and after having fought Dresden in PTs he'll know just how to lose. Whammo harry gets possession of the blackstaff and the council feels like a bunch of mooks for delivering another insanely powerful upgrade right to him.

[Snark Knight]

at point 1 no. Killing people in battle is not self defense, you can flee. The real question is do think those servitors are human.

Which would be desertion in battle, after the Senior Councilors present ordered him to fight, with Eb even specifying no quarter. But sure, he could have theoretically done that, even though it would have presumably been a catch-22 death sentence on different grounds.

We have Molly's POV that the turtlenecks' minds aren't human anymore as far back as Bombshells, but the Council might not have made that kind of detailed assessment, and they're not going to take her word on it at this point.

[Arjan]

Which would be desertion in battle, after the Senior Councilors present ordered him to fight, with Eb even specifying no quarter. But sure, he could have theoretically done that, even though it would have presumably been a catch-22 death sentence on different grounds.

We have Molly's POV that the turtlenecks' minds aren't human anymore as far back as Bombshells, but the Council might not have made that kind of detailed assessment, and they're not going to take her word on it at this point.

Molly’s word is difficult to deny but the white councils definition of human is probably somewhat opportunistic.

Catch 22 is nothing special in Harry’s life. But I think battle is not a self defence situation otherwise every wizard would use all kinds of magic in battle against humans and things would deteriorate quickly.

[groinkick]

In changes Ebenezer used the blackstaf to kill a lot of human mercenaries during battle. That was black magic and Harry was shocked.

If wizards were allowed to use magic in battle the whole dresdenverse would be quite different. If the servitors were really humans Harry had to find another solution or simply had to leave his people to die. Veil and slip away. That is how listen to winds people probably died. That is how it works.

The seven laws are not about morality or good and evil. Not directly as we see them in this universe anyway.

And we never have seen self defense as a reason someone did not break the law. Harry was convicted.

He didn't technically break the Laws though.  If he had, they would have executed him, not kicked him out.  They know he acted because he had to.  They needed an excuse, and created one.  If he had fled instead, they would have probably kicked him out for abandoning his fellow White Council members in battle.

[Basil]

Here's the passage from Changes where Harry sees McCoy cut loose:

Ebenezar turned toward the walls from which the soldiers were firing. Hits thumped into his robes, but seemed to do little but stir the fabric and then fall at his feet. The old man said, mostly to himself, “You took the wrong contract, boys.” Then he swept the Blackstaff from left to right, murmured a word, and ripped the life from a hundred men. They just . . . died. There was absolutely nothing to mark their deaths. No sign of pain. No struggle. No convulsion of muscles. No reaction at all. One moment they were firing wildly down at us—and the next, they simply— Dropped. Dead. The old man turned to the other wall, and I saw two or three of the brighter soldiers throw their guns down and run. I don’t know if they made it, but the old man swept the Blackstaff through the air again, and the gunmen on that side of the field dropped dead where they stood. My godmother watched it happen, and bounced and clapped her hands some more, as delighted as a child at the circus. I stared for a second, shocked. Ebenezar had just shattered the First Law of Magic: Thou shalt not kill. He had used magic to directly end the life of another human being—nearly two hundred times. I mean, yes, I had known what his office allowed him to do. . . . But there was a big difference between appreciating a fact and seeing that terrible truth in motion. The Blackstaff itself pulsed and shimmered with shadowy power, and I got the sudden sense that the thing was alive, that it knew its purpose and wanted nothing more than to be used, as often and as spectacularly as possible. I also saw veins of venomous black begin to ooze their way over the old man’s hand, reaching up slowly, spreading to his wrist. He grimaced and held his left forearm with his right hand for a moment, then looked over his shoulder and said, “All right!”

Butcher, Jim. Changes (The Dresden Files, Book 12) (pp. 396-397). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Harry certainly views it as a violation -- a shattering no less -- of the First Law.  So, perhaps Arjan has a point.  One certainly could interpret the passage that way; one could also interpret it as shock that McCoy would attack so casually and easily -- just ripping the life from 200 hundred mercs in an instant.

If I wanted to play lawyer here -- and I do -- I'd say that we can't know from Harry's point of view whether McCoy actually violated the law, or whether Harry just thinks he does.  As Harry points out, legally speaking McCoy's office trumps the law. 

[Mira]

He didn't technically break the Laws though.  If he had, they would have executed him, not kicked him out.  They know he acted because he had to.  They needed an excuse, and created one.  If he had fled instead, they would have probably kicked him out for abandoning his fellow White Council members in battle.

I agree, killing with magic had nothing to do with kicking him out, they wanted to do that beforethe battle began in Peace Talks.  There are other forces at work here, the irony is someone might think he is safer out of the Council all together than part of it.. 

[Arjan]

Here's the passage from Changes where Harry sees McCoy cut loose:

Butcher, Jim. Changes (The Dresden Files, Book 12) (pp. 396-397). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Harry certainly views it as a violation -- a shattering no less -- of the First Law.  So, perhaps Arjan has a point.  One certainly could interpret the passage that way; one could also interpret it as shock that McCoy would attack so casually and easily -- just ripping the life from 200 hundred mercs in an instant.

If I wanted to play lawyer here -- and I do -- I'd say that we can't know from Harry's point of view whether McCoy actually violated the law, or whether Harry just thinks he does.  As Harry points out, legally speaking McCoy's office trumps the law.

Harry knew about the blackstaf at that point but if Harry had done the same there without blackstaf and with all the council wizards there he would have been dead.