Forced empathy

[Arjan]

Off with their heads it is then.

Without any hope of clemency they will become desperate and ruthless. Any warlock who survives the first few decades will become very dangerous as well with a lot of experience in fighting and hiding. The white councils policy is also a self fulfilling prophesy. And some of them will survive. The world is too big and the white council too weak in big parts of it.

[groinkick]

Without any hope of clemency they will become desperate and ruthless. Any warlock who survives the first few decades will become very dangerous as well with a lot of experience in fighting and hiding. The white councils policy is also a self fulfilling prophesy. And some of them will survive. The world is too big and the white council too weak in big parts of it.

I gave you an example of clemency.  They give up magic forever, go on living normal lives.  You said that would make them bitter...  Ok then, the answer is to get rid of them before they become too much trouble. 

[Arjan]

I gave you an example of clemency.  They give up magic forever, go on living normal lives.  You said that would make them bitter...  Ok then, the answer is to get rid of them before they become too much trouble.

Giving up magic is one thing. Thorned Manacles are quite something else.

[groinkick]

Giving up magic is one thing. Thorned Manacles are quite something else.

I meant an equivalent.  All it would do is ensure they don't cast magic.  I mean what is the alternative?  They don't have enough wardens to babysit, and ensure they aren't violating the laws of magic.  They could lock them up in a prison for long periods of time I guess.  There really isn't a lot of options with people who can create destruction with the power of thought, and will.

[TheCuriousFan]

The other catch of your system is that it leaves them as easy targets both for recruitment and completely helpless against anything that has a reason to want to eat a magic user in particular.

[groinkick]

The other catch of your system is that it leaves them as easy targets both for recruitment and completely helpless against anything that has a reason to want to eat a magic user in particular.

I mean what really is a viable option?  They are walking, talking, weapons of mass destruction.  Your option is to kill them, disarm them, or let them walk free.  They would literally require 24 hour supervision for a very long period of time to make sure they don't cause destruction. 

[Arjan]

I meant an equivalent.  All it would do is ensure they don't cast magic.  I mean what is the alternative?  They don't have enough wardens to babysit, and ensure they aren't violating the laws of magic.  They could lock them up in a prison for long periods of time I guess.  There really isn't a lot of options with people who can create destruction with the power of thought, and will.

The alternative is therapy and love in a safe and stable environment for people who have a realistic hope for improvement. Any other solutions are bound to fail. It is also a matter of mentality. The knights are prepared to accept some failures if they can save someone, the white council is prepared to kill more people than necessary to be on the safe side. And they don’t want to spend the resources.

[groinkick]

The alternative is therapy and love in a safe and stable environment for people who have a realistic hope for improvement. Any other solutions are bound to fail. It is also a matter of mentality. The knights are prepared to accept some failures if they can save someone, the white council is prepared to kill more people than necessary to be on the safe side. And they don’t want to spend the resources.

The Knights don't have to worry about Fallen summoning He Who Walks Behind.  You cannot make a fair comparison because the threats, and circumstances are completely different.

Harry required years of constant supervision from someone.  The Council actually gives this option to wizards.  Most are not willing to look after a potential warlock because they know two things: 

1.  It really could get them killed. 
2.  Their failure would mean innocent people die.

It would be like willing to go to sleep under the same roof as a possible serial killer.  How many want to take that kind of gamble?  Would you?

The most dangerous people wouldn't be the frothing at the mouth, obvious warlocks with no hope of redemption.  It would be the ones who you aren't sure about.  Those are the ones you have to worry about burning you alive in your own bed after a nice dinner.

[TheCuriousFan]

I mean what really is a viable option?  They are walking, talking, weapons of mass destruction.  Your option is to kill them, disarm them, or let them walk free.  They would literally require 24 hour supervision for a very long period of time to make sure they don't cause destruction.

Or attempt a therapy program, you have more options than just stalk them 24/7, the observer doesn't also have to be 100% capable of killing them them at any given moment.

The Knights don't have to worry about Fallen summoning He Who Walks Behind.  You cannot make a fair comparison because the threats, and circumstances are completely different.

I mean they do, there's no special rule saying denarians can't summon things after giving up their coin, they do it anyway because they believe attempting redemption is the right thing to do.

[groinkick]

Or attempt a therapy program

Do you have this approach as well for real life murderers?  Just some therapy?  If they violate the first law, they are already literal murderers from the start.

I mean they do, there's no special rule saying denarians can't summon things after giving up their coin, they do it anyway because they believe attempting redemption is the right thing to do.

Because when they give up the Coin they are giving up the corrupting force, which doesn't happen from corrupting magic.  Also very few known wizards take up a Coin, so no threat of summoning an Outsider once they give up the Coin.

[Arjan]

Do you have this approach as well for real life murderers?  Just some therapy?  If they violate the first law, they are already literal murderers from the start.

Actually yes. If they are deemed not responsible for their deeds due to mental illness or something like that they go to special clinics. It is forced therapy of course but what use is it to send them to jail?

And the clinic is closed because you can not let them loose but it is not a jail. In some respects it is worse than jail but in other respects it is not.

No use having all the mentally ill in the normal prison system.

Just some therapy is a misnomer. Lot of criminals in Holland prefer just jail actually. It is not like oh give them some yoga lessons and let them loose.

Because that is what warlocks are, if we want to cure them we agree they are mentally ill. The compulsion to break laws even if it is not in their best interest can be seen as a mental illness.

[Mira]

Actually yes. If they are deemed not responsible for their deeds due to mental illness or something like that they go to special clinics. It is forced therapy of course but what use is it to send them to jail?

And the clinic is closed because you can not let them loose but it is not a jail. In some respects it is worse than jail but in other respects it is not.

No use having all the mentally ill in the normal prison system.

Just some therapy is a misnomer. Lot of criminals in Holland prefer just jail actually. It is not like oh give them some yoga lessons and let them loose.

Because that is what warlocks are, if we want to cure them we agree they are mentally ill. The compulsion to break laws even if it is not in their best interest can be seen as a mental illness.

Mental illness, yes, but the White Council is of the belief that only if caught early and in rare cases it can be cured.. They are just too dangerous, so they prefer to put warlocks down, not unlike a rabid dog.

[Arjan]

Mental illness, yes, but the White Council is of the belief that only if caught early and in rare cases it can be cured.. They are just too dangerous, so they prefer to put warlocks down, not unlike a rabid dog.

We tend not to do that with rabid humans. Especially not if we think we can save them. The Merlin told Harry that it was a waste of resources to try such a thing. Not that it was impossible or dangerous but that it was a waste of resources.

[Mira]

We tend not to do that with rabid humans. Especially not if we think we can save them. The Merlin told Harry that it was a waste of resources to try such a thing. Not that it was impossible or dangerous but that it was a waste of resources.

Yup and that is exactly how the Council sees young warlocks, rabid humans.  So for them it is a waste of resources to give them a trial let alone try to rehab them and risk the fall out from a failure, not just of the qualified wizard who will die with the young warlock under the Doom, but the harm the young warlock would cause before stopped.

[Arjan]

Yup and that is exactly how the Council sees young warlocks, rabid humans.  So for them it is a waste of resources to give them a trial let alone try to rehab them and risk the fall out from a failure, not just of the qualified wizard who will die with the young warlock under the Doom, but the harm the young warlock would cause before stopped.

And that was not the merlins argument. While the gatekeeper thought it worth trying the Merlin was like we need you for the war, get in line.

Because the danger of Molly becoming Kemmler size warlock was not that big even if Harry was not going to kill her when she broke the law again.

For the Merlin it even might have opened an opportunity to kill Harry.

It was just the merlins instinct that told him kill and don’t waste time. And that was the original point. Trying to save Molly was not that dangerous as some in this forum seem to think, the senior council did not think it that dangerous. They were just emotionally against it. At least the Merlin was.