How Murphy could return to the Dresden Files

[groinkick]

That is my point if she does come back, the mortal human Murphy will be no more.  And who knows? Jim might just do that to Harry, imagine him running into Murphy who is now a berserker? Kind of like what Lea did back in Grave Peril to Susan, even if Murphy remembers Harry, any memory of what they had meant to one another is totally gone.

How do you know the warriors of Odin weren't like that in their previous lives?  He picks warriors for a reason.  They may very well have been savage warriors who loved battle during their mortal lives.

[forumghost]

I think she may return as a warrior of Odin, but also the one to wield Excalibur during the BAT.

I doubt it. Murphy had the choice to become a Knight before and she refused it.

I honestly have never seen them as a fit for her. Remember when Harry Saw her way back when? She's not a Guardian Angel or Angel of Redemption- She's an Avenging Angel and Revenge is not the Jedi way not really what the KotC are for.

I don't think she'd ever take one of those up again.

[LaraBeck]

I think she may return as a warrior of Odin, but also the one to wield Excalibur during the BAT.

First, that's a cool illustration, nice find!

Second, personally, I always thought that sword would fit her better. I don't think she'd become a Knight, just that, as in Changes, she'd weild it for a specific purpose in the BAT.

[K.L.O.E.]

What if Mirror Mirror Murphy comes back with Dresden? Just re-watched Endgame and was thinking about Gamora and Loki. Could be a different enough character to become a Knight?

[groinkick]

What if Mirror Mirror Murphy comes back with Dresden? Just re-watched Endgame and was thinking about Gamora and Loki. Could be a different enough character to become a Knight?

Although this could happen, it would be kind of lame to me.  It wouldn't really be our Murphy.  She'd have different life experiences, and in a way it would feel like her death had been cheapened, and not important.

[Mira]

Although this could happen, it would be kind of lame to me.  It wouldn't really be our Murphy.  She'd have different life experiences, and in a way it would feel like her death had been cheapened, and not important.

  Our Murphy isn't coming back, she is D-E-A-D.  What will come back may look like her, but it won't be her.  That is why I say be careful for what you wish for, you may get it.

[Arjan]

  Our Murphy isn't coming back, she is D-E-A-D.  What will come back may look like her, but it won't be her.  That is why I say be careful for what you wish for, you may get it.

Harry was dead. Harry talked to his father and he was also dead. According to Uriel it is not about your body, it is about your soul.

Harry talked to Murphy’s dad. They were both dead but they were both Harry and Murphy’s father.

Dead, alive, Valkyrie, Einherjar, shade, whatever.

As long as Murphy’s soul is in there it will be Murphy.

[TrueMonk]

To me the einharjar seems like a pretty likely representation of vikings who died in glorious battle.

Do they seem different than people today? Yes, because lived more than 1000 years ago and was raised in a sort of warrior cult society where the best fate they could imagine was to die in glorious battle. So they could be rewarded with fighting to death every day to prepare for ragnarok. I mean, of course they are a bit odd.

I have not seen anything to suggest that they have been changed by becoming einharjaren. A serious argument for that should quote the books.

[Mira]

Harry was dead. Harry talked to his father and he was also dead. According to Uriel it is not about your body, it is about your soul.

No, Harry was only mostly dead, that was the dangers of his soul's walk about.  Uriel needed Harry to learn some important lessons, but there were risks.  Mort and Bob both confirmed that Harry's body wasn't all dead, thus he was neither fish nor foul not having the normal protections that ghost or soul get.  If Uriel hadn't been able to overrule Mab and Alfred, I believe Mab would have brought Harry back instantly, or just let him slide on that timeline beyond reclaiming life.

[Arjan]

No, Harry was only mostly dead,

That is your interpretation. Jim and everyone in the books disagrees.

Harry crossed the line. He returned from the dead.

that was the dangers of his soul's walk about.  Uriel needed Harry to learn some important lessons, but there were risks.  Mort and Bob both confirmed that Harry's body wasn't all dead, thus he was neither fish nor foul not having the normal protections that ghost or soul get.  If Uriel hadn't been able to overrule Mab and Alfred, I believe Mab would have brought Harry back instantly, or just let him slide on that timeline beyond reclaiming life.

Or as Lash said you have to die to understand. Or as Lea said what is the use of being dead if it is not a learning experience.

[Mira]

That is your interpretation. Jim and everyone in the books disagrees.

Nope, when I have time I will give you the quotes... Including the one where Mab describes the death
time line for lack of a better word, Harry never got far enough not to be called back.  Where when Harry was a guest inside of Bob's skull, Bob tells him that something is not quite right, Mort the same thing..  So if it is in the book, then it must be what Jim thinks as well.

[groinkick]

  Our Murphy isn't coming back, she is D-E-A-D.  What will come back may look like her, but it won't be her.  That is why I say be careful for what you wish for, you may get it.

Uriel (probably): Lies
Mab: Death is a spectrum, not a line

Murphy's body wasn't buried in the ground, and it wasn't burned to ash.  Just as Mab took Harry's body, Odin took Murphy's.  Which Murphy was real?  The Murphy Dresden saw with his Sight that was a blazing warrior, or the one he saw later that was a beat up warrior?  In reality, both were real.  I suspect that when Murphy returns, she will be as Dresden saw her before.  A blazing warrior not stained with the failures, and pain that Murphy had near the end. She will be her truest self.

[Arjan]

Nope, when I have time I will give you the quotes... Including the one where Mab describes the death
time line for lack of a better word, Harry never got far enough not to be called back.  Where when Harry was a guest inside of Bob's skull, Bob tells him that something is not quite right, Mort the same thing..  So if it is in the book, then it must be what Jim thinks as well.

Bob and Mort are elected a ghost of Harry and not Harry himself so of course something was not quite right. Bob figured it out as Morty did later.

But it is as Harry and he was dead. Not a ghost of Harry. Bob said it explicitly. He was dead but not gone.

The dead have to travel to the hereafter and that travel can be dangerous. That is why there was an escort arranged for father Forthill.

As long as you have your soul you are you dead or alive.

[Mira]

Bob and Mort are elected a ghost of Harry and not Harry himself so of course something was not quite right. Bob figured it out as Morty did later.

But it is as Harry and he was dead. Not a ghost of Harry. Bob said it explicitly. He was dead but not gone.

The dead have to travel to the hereafter and that travel can be dangerous. That is why there was an escort arranged for father Forthill.

As long as you have your soul you are you dead or alive.

He was on life support, deep coma, not brain dead... Dead, but not gone, says he is slightly alive, he was brought back, he is as he was... Murphy is dead and gone, she may come back in some form, but it won't be as she was..  Also there is this, the idea that the Einherjar just seem like normal regular warriors, so Murphy will come back just like she was.  We've never met a human before he became an Einherjar to compare before and after.  No one has sat down with an Einherjar and asked him what his life was before.

[Arjan]

He was on life support, deep coma, not brain dead... Dead, but not gone, says he is slightly alive, he was brought back, he is as he was...

Corpstaker's body was lost, it does not make a difference if you are prepared to take another one. Harry could have taken another body and Mab would have been left with an empty vessel maybe for Bonea to use.

The body is not that important for this line of reasoning. Nice that Mab kept a body ready because Harry would not have taken another one, Too evil.

The soul has a body.

Murphy is dead and gone,

Murphy has gone to Walhalla, just like Socrates went to Hades. Different rules apply. But it is Murphy.

she may come back in some form, but it won't be as she was.. 

Either she comes back or she does not but if her soul is not included it is not her. So no use talking about that.

Also there is this, the idea that the Einherjar just seem like normal regular warriors, so Murphy will come back just like she was.  We've never met a human before he became an Einherjar to compare before and after.  No one has sat down with an Einherjar and asked him what his life was before.

But we know they act quite human. Nothing indicates that they are not exactly what norse mythology says they are. The afterlife existence of dead warriors, not some zombies or vampires. Really the afterlife of a person. With the soul otherwise it just makes no sense and Vadderung would not have used soulfire but a drum.

And we know they have memories of their life, River Shoulder told us so. They have memories of the Genoskwa.

Actually from what we know dead people have better memory, total recall as Harry showed (and yes that is another sign he was dead)

The Valkyries pick them up and bring them to valhalla to fight and party. They are the same persons just a different condition. Hades keeps them in his realm, Vadderung raises the best ones as his warrior because he has a lot to do and that is what his followers want.