Why is Mab the one who made the Accords?

[ZhonLord]

[Battle Grounds spoilers]

So, in Battle Grounds, Ethniu states that she knew Mab prior to becoming the Queen of Air and Darkness.  And as part of her vendetta against Mab, she made it her goal to destroy the Unseelie Accords and everyone who stands by them.  This makes it clear that the Accords are not something that have always been around, they were created during the era of human mythology, by the current Winter Queen herself - not the previous one.  Which brings a question to my mind:

Why is it that Mab is the one who founded the Accords, and not Titania?  Summer's purpose is to counter Winter any time there is an action that is outside the realm of opposing Outsiders and defending the Outer Gates, so wouldn't it have made more sense to have Summer be the ones to make the Accords as a way of applying a check to Winter's "extracurricular" activities?  Or am I missing something?

[gorgonson]

It could just be that Mab is far more strategic and she needs the accords or else  winter is constantly having to go fight vendetta battles when Mab needs everyone really focused at the Outer Gates

[groinkick]

I think all of the powers wanted some sort of order, but none of them trusted the other, or had the power to enforce the rules...  Mab does not lie, enforces the rule of law without favoritism, and has those powers.  I wouldn't be shocked if there was an earlier peace talks, and something was hammered out.

[Avernite]

For all we know they're more of Faerie accords; the shenanigans they mostly disallow (blunt force) are not so Faerie-ish, the shenanigans behind the scenes that ARE allowed are very Faerie (because cloaked and secretive).

So I wouldn't be surprised if Mab and Titania indirectly worked on them together, but they're Mab's accords because Mab is far better at making people listen (because she's scarier).

[BrainFireBob]

I've thought on this. My best guess:

The Accorded nations are generally the B-string for defense of reality.

OR

If Winter bites it/Titania hits the big red button, Winter's replacement needs to come from the Accorded nations.

OR

Mab couldn't afford the chaos to her rear while fighting the Outsiders.

I lean toward a mix of the first two. Of course, I've also speculated that the Courts are immune to Nemfection as a side-effect of their vampirism- that it "consumes" that port, to use a computer analogy. Makes them great candidates to protect reality, especially with their dependency on the mortal world.

It also gives Mab a firebreak against magical Apocalypse, with the Accords basically being a "first one out of line, we all dogpile". Poor Fomor.

[The_Sibelis]

I think all of the powers wanted some sort of order, but none of them trusted the other, or had the power to enforce the rules...  Mab does not lie, enforces the rule of law without favoritism, and has those powers.  I wouldn't be shocked if there was an earlier peace talks, and something was hammered out.

current accords actually came about from the unseelie incursion of 1994

[Bad Alias]

current accords actually came about from the unseelie incursion of 1994

I always thought the current accords were just the latest in a series of accords, but one of Jim's 2020 interviews has me rethinking that. Sorry I can't be more specific because I only really remember Jim said something and that was my impression.

[The_Sibelis]

I always thought the current accords were just the latest in a series of accords, but one of Jim's 2020 interviews has me rethinking that. Sorry I can't be more specific because I only really remember Jim said something and that was my impression.

I'm thinking that was in the same Woj actually.. the accords are only the current version but there's always been something between the supernatural nations.

[ZhonLord]

I'm thinking that was in the same Woj actually.. the accords are only the current version but there's always been something between the supernatural nations.

If any of you have a link, quote or explanation of that WoJ it would be appreciated.

[ZhonLord]

The Accorded nations are generally the B-string for defense of reality.
OR
If Winter bites it/Titania hits the big red button, Winter's replacement needs to come from the Accorded nations.
OR
Mab couldn't afford the chaos to her rear while fighting the Outsiders.

Option 1 is definitely a factor, considering how Battle Grounds played out.  Your "firebreak" point also works with this theory.

Of course, I've also speculated that the Courts are immune to Nemfection as a side-effect of their vampirism- that it "consumes" that port, to use a computer analogy. Makes them great candidates to protect reality, especially with their dependency on the mortal world.

I doubt it.  The Outsiders are able to manipulate and control anyone who isn't Starborn, which is why Drakul could outright ignore the Outsiders. But to fall under the influence of Nemesis, it would seem that He who Walks Beside has to use some temptation or other  that the person already has - such as when it gave Maeve the ability to lie and deceive despite her Fae nature in order to lure her in, or offering Justine her life back instead of being a near-dead emotionless husk, etc.  For a vampire, it could be as simple as giving them freedom from the Hunger while keeping their power intact.

[The_Sibelis]

If any of you have a link, quote or explanation of that WoJ it would be appreciated.

does saying TheCuriousFan still summon thee? If not I'll look for it later. I know it's in the transcripts recently, last couple pages..

[TheCuriousFan]

does saying TheCuriousFan still summon thee? If not I'll look for it later. I know it's in the transcripts recently, last couple pages..

No but this place is dead enough that I can read the 12 posts a day without too much effort.

The RPG elaborates on this bit a bit more but here's the general gist from the podcast interview.

So we've now seen essentially all the accorded nations basically in one big fight. And you've put that in the books that the accords are something fairly recent and it seems like they stem from the kind of throwaway mention of the Unseelie Incursion in 1994 that comes up in Storm Front and is never talked about again.

That's right.

Are there any particular details or reasons for that event we could get?

I will tell you that it originated in a clash between the Summer and the Winter Knight and it just got out of hand and then things just got completely crazy and I kind of know the story of it in my head, I keep thinking that maybe I should write it up a bit eventually.

That would be cool. Was the Summer Knight the one from Summer Knight, the guy who dies in that book?

Yeah, Roland Reuel vs Lloyd Slate. It started with those two.

I always thought the current accords were just the latest in a series of accords, but one of Jim's 2020 interviews has me rethinking that. Sorry I can't be more specific because I only really remember Jim said something and that was my impression.

They're the latest batch of general rules but a lot of the stuff they cover existed in some form before that, albeit a less formalised one. I forget which book mentioned that, probably Death Masks.

[BrainFireBob]

Option 1 is definitely a factor, considering how Battle Grounds played out.  Your "firebreak" point also works with this theory.

I doubt it.  The Outsiders are able to manipulate and control anyone who isn't Starborn, which is why Drakul could outright ignore the Outsiders. But to fall under the influence of Nemesis, it would seem that He who Walks Beside has to use some temptation or other  that the person already has - such as when it gave Maeve the ability to lie and deceive despite her Fae nature in order to lure her in, or offering Justine her life back instead of being a near-dead emotionless husk, etc.  For a vampire, it could be as simple as giving them freedom from the Hunger while keeping their power intact.

Step further as a WAG: Do vampires have derivative power?

ie, is there a maternal/paternal "Source" that they derive power from?

Bit of a wild thought, but if, say, the "Source" of each court is starborn- such as the god the Lords of the Outer Night were devouring- then you do have spread protection.

Anyone know where Jim fell on Highlander fandom?

[Bad Alias]

They're the latest batch of general rules but a lot of the stuff they cover existed in some form before that, albeit a less formalised one. I forget which book mentioned that, probably Death Masks.

There's definitely a bunch of pre-existing stuff that got codified and defined. That's often how statutory law works. I had just thought there were earlier versions of he Accords. And I'm not the only one. I'm just trying to figure out where we all got the impression that the 94 version was one, a version, and two, the most recent one.

I remember something making me think that was wrong. Maybe it was something from PT or BG.

4-6 BSF: The most recent version of the Unseelie Accords is signed 10-12 years before Proven Guilty [PG 127]. Thanks to Tepick! I wonder if this coincides with the Unseelie Incursion of 1994?

-Timeline, emphasis added.

Instigated by Queen Mab, the Accords include protocols for etiquette, hospitality, formal duels, and neutral ground. They were last updated in 1994, when the entire city of Milwaukee[Footnote 2] allegedly disappeared for two hours.[1]

https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Unseelie_Accords emphasis added.