An amusing thought about Proven Guilty

[morriswalters]

This occurred to me while I was talking to someone on Reddit. Harry and the others get attacked at the Fool Moon Garage by Scarecrow.  But wait did he, or was Jim reusing something from earlier? Consider the chlorofiend. That's all.

[Smaug with OCD]

Yes, Jim reused a set from earlier in the series.

NOTE: The following is a kind of minor spoiler. But, it is a spoiler. So, read at your own risk.

(click to show/hide)

It actually becomes a minor plot point later in the series(Cold Days... I think...), when Harry realizes that bad guys are using locations he's been to before. Something about the magical energies there resonating with their evilness... or something.

[morriswalters]

Not the garage.

[Kindler]

Do you mean that the Winter Lady was possessing the Scarecrow similarly to how the Summer Lady was possessing the chlorofiend?
(I do enjoy how Dresden deliberately names it and then has to follow it up with "plant monster" every time he actually uses it in a sentence).

[morriswalters]

Do you mean that the Winter Lady was possessing the Scarecrow similarly to how the Summer Lady was possessing the chlorofiend?
(I do enjoy how Dresden deliberately names it and then has to follow it up with "plant monster" every time he actually uses it in a sentence).

Yes, pretty much, the scenario is almost exactly the same.

[Bad Alias]

Aurora wasn't able to hurt Murphy, so how come the scarecrow was able to hurt Mouse? I don't recall it hurting anyone else besides Harry and Glau. Glau probably, as Bob put it, did something stupid like make an open ended bargain with her without even trying to trade a stolen extra baby that allowed him to be harmed. Harry's all tangled up in Winter, so maybe there's something there.

[Arjan]

Aurora wasn't able to hurt Murphy, so how come the scarecrow was able to hurt Mouse? I don't recall it hurting anyone else besides Harry and Glau. Glau probably, as Bob put it, did something stupid like make an open ended bargain with her without even trying to trade a stolen extra baby that allowed him to be harmed. Harry's all tangled up in Winter, so maybe there's something there.

Mouse is not human. Different rules apply.

[The_Sibelis]

Eh, if you pay attention with the scarecrow, it's probable it's fearbringer, at least by the end... which considering Aurora was infected herself does lend it some parallel. I don't think Maeve sent the fetches though, Mab did it.
Some power points,
1 someone taught Molly to use fear to violate free will
2 Eldest Fetch ate her.and unlike with Wamps, we have Daniel under Harry's sight to confirm they take much bigger bites into the spirit itself.
3 the fetches already have the right mirroring for fearbringer, but are unable to change on their own, Magic, the very forces of creation from a mortal wizard can do that though. The fetches aren't like most of fairy either, they have no solid bodies. This is, I think, by design.
4 the 'or what follows' was a hwwbh joke. My memory is vague, but when Harry hulk's out doesn't he say something to the effect of 'ahh there you are.'? Someone else does the same thing to him later iirc.. calls back to a theory hwwbh imprinted his aura on Harry, when he starts to resemble his mindset they see it.(harry going after Rudolph was a very symbolic/meta instance. He became pure hatred incarnate in that moment.. same as hwwbh)
5 the flash of recognition... Didn't sharky have the same thing or was it someone else?
6 him saying he's served the queen of air and darkness since before human memory.
7 Totally forgot something but I'll put this as a place holder..

[morriswalters]

Aurora wasn't able to hurt Murphy, so how come the scarecrow was able to hurt Mouse? I don't recall it hurting anyone else besides Harry and Glau. Glau probably, as Bob put it, did something stupid like make an open ended bargain with her without even trying to trade a stolen extra baby that allowed him to be harmed. Harry's all tangled up in Winter, so maybe there's something there.

I have no idea.  It just struck me as funny.  The only human there was Rawlings and Maeve is off the reservation at this point in any case.  It's like Jim thought, why don't I recycle this scene from Summer Knight.

Eh, if you pay attention with the scarecrow, it's probable it's fearbringer, at least by the end... which considering Aurora was infected herself does lend it some parallel. I don't think Maeve sent the fetches though, Mab did it.

Mab sent some and Maeve did as well.  You can tell the difference if you've read Summer Knight.  Also there is a timing issue. The Scarecrow was at the Carpenters when Molly was snatched and at Arctis Tor with her.  Did he leave her there unattended accept by Mab?

[The_Sibelis]

Mab sent some and Maeve did as well.  You can tell the difference if you've read Summer Knight.

no, not really..

  Also there is a timing issue. The Scarecrow was at the Carpenters when Molly was snatched and at Arctis Tor with her.  Did he leave her there unattended accept by Mab?

what? That statement makes no sense to me. The scarecrow took her from her home, which is a big juju indicator right there. Creatures of pure Spirit not only violated homestead laws, but walked all over uriel's protection like it didn't exist. funny thing is I don't remember anyone ever discussing this aspect here... How/why? Because the ones who entered held no ill intentions. Hammer hands attacked Daniel outside. The ones who took molly sought to do exactly what they did, save her by eating her. The caveat is Mab sent them with a purpose, but she cannot gainsay their nature, which is to attack and eat people's fear.
Anyway, he took her from her home and traveled to Arctis Tor. Where's the timing issue in that?

[morriswalters]

There are three attacks not counting the Fool Moon Garage. The first on Clark Pell in the Bathroom  Mab owns this one, the fetches are sent. The next two attacks are summoned from Splattercon by Maeve. Jim has the Talking head tell you there are two ways to get the fetches here.

“Okay. Assuming that, the next variable is finding out whether they’re being summoned or sent.”

Jim has a fetish about forty degrees or he's using it as a marker.  That specific number shows up in Summer Knight in the cantina scene and again in the hallway during the attack as Harry goes to the screening room.  There will be another temperature drop just before the last attack. Jim must not have wanted to be too obvious.  In the bathroom scene no one gets killed and there is no temperature drop.  Rawlins wouldn't have missed it.

At the Carpenters Jim has Harry aver that the fetches impersonated him to get Molly to invite them in. But Scarecrow is at all three places. He killed Glau and is at the Carpenters to get Molly and at Arctis Tor. That makes the timing wonky IMO.

[The_Sibelis]

There are three attacks not counting the Fool Moon Garage. The first on Clark Pell in the Bathroom  Mab owns this one, the fetches are sent. The next two attacks are summoned from Splattercon by Maeve. Jim has the Talking head tell you there are two ways to get the fetches here.
Jim has a fetish about forty degrees or he's using it as a marker.  That specific number shows up in Summer Knight in the cantina scene and again in the hallway during the attack as Harry goes to the screening room.  There will be another temperature drop just before the last attack. Jim must not have wanted to be too obvious.  In the bathroom scene no one gets killed and there is no temperature drop.  Rawlins wouldn't have missed it.

At the Carpenters Jim has Harry aver that the fetches impersonated him to get Molly to invite them in.

ahh, I did forget about that, but it doesn't entirely explain why the sentinels didn't respond. EVERYONE else specifically sends mortals to do the deeds. BG for instance.

But Scarecrow is at all three places. He killed Glau and is at the Carpenters to get Molly and at Arctis Tor. That makes the timing wonky IMO.

you realize they can slip in and out of the NN right? And time IS wonky there, especially if you have any sort of pull to make it so. Thinking he just used it to fast travel as it were.
The talking head actually explains alot more.. I need to reread that for context atm, but the beacon doesn't have to be the summoner.
It also explains imo, how Nemesis and cohorts vector to hosts. They find a beacon, something that matches their wave lengths..
Gonna go try to scrounge up my book rn, If I can find it, definitely need a refresher to explain the first part better, but when we get an info dump in the DF, it's usually explaining more than one thing at the same time. Even the simplicity of thaumaturgy, I think hints at the whole of the series, as above, so below.

[Bad Alias]

Mouse is not human. Different rules apply.

Duh. My bad. What about Charity in Arctis Tor? Would her being in Arctis Tor mean a Queen could harm Charity? That would make it work.

Creatures of pure Spirit not only violated homestead laws, but walked all over uriel's protection like it didn't exist.

Probably because it didn't exist. All the angels guarding the place are part of Michael's retirement package. It might be most clearly addressed in SG when Michael asks about what effect him taking up the Sword again would have on the protection. Uriel responds that he is taking Michael's place, so the protection remains.

[Bad Alias]

Also there is a timing issue. The Scarecrow was at the Carpenters when Molly was snatched and at Arctis Tor with her.  Did he leave her there unattended accept by Mab?

Harry, albeit accidentally, sends the Fetches after Molly. Harry fights the Alien fetch. Harry gets kidnapped. Harry escapes, mostly. Thomas shows, up. Banter and negotiation. Scarecrow shows up.

I think the fetch had plenty of time to get Molly to Arctis Tor and leave some instructions with the other fetches as to what to do with her.

[Arjan]

Duh. My bad. What about Charity in Arctis Tor? Would her being in Arctis Tor mean a Queen could harm Charity? That would make it work.

Some of the creatures under her command can. I don’t think she herself can do it directly.

Probably because it didn't exist. All the angels guarding the place are part of Michael's retirement package. It might be most clearly addressed in SG when Michael asks about what effect him taking up the Sword again would have on the protection. Uriel responds that he is taking Michael's place, so the protection remains.