Something Occured to Me as to Why the Senior Council is so Afraid of Harry

[Ed0517]

They will be raised in time for the party. I hope Murphy will enjoy it but she certainly will enjoy fighting outsiders. She always expressed her wish to be involved and this was probably the only way to grant that wish.

If there was a deal with Uriel some sort of free willed choice was involved and Murphy really started to behave like a Viking warrior. Freydis thought it hot.

Didn't Gard tell Harry that they can't be raised until all with memory of them were dead? That even the Allfather couldn't break that rule?

[Mira]

Didn't Gard tell Harry that they can't be raised until all with memory of them were dead? That even the Allfather couldn't break that rule?

Yup.

[Arjan]

Didn't Gard tell Harry that they can't be raised until all with memory of them were dead? That even the Allfather couldn't break that rule?

Sure she will have to wait a bit but the outsiders will always be there to fight against.

[Mira]

Sure she will have to wait a bit but the outsiders will always be there to fight against.

True, but Gard's statement is ambiguous at best, just what did she mean?  Did she mean that Murphy cannot come back as a fighter until everyone who has known her and remembers her are dead?  Or that even if she does come back, while we the readers might recognize her immediately as Murphy, Harry and anyone who has ever known her or known of her, won't?   Then after she goes away, Harry scratches his head and says, "was that???"

[Arjan]

True, but Gard's statement is ambiguous at best, just what did she mean?  Did she mean that Murphy cannot come back as a fighter until everyone who has known her and remembers her are dead?  Or that even if she does come back, while we the readers might recognize her immediately as Murphy, Harry and anyone who has ever known her or known of her, won't?   Then after she goes away, Harry scratches his head and says, "was that???"

Or by the time she comes back Harry is not mortal anymore.

[deadvoid]

couldn't be raised if her immediate & extended families are still alive, but i suspect it won't matter when Ragnarok comes

[Dina]

I agree with that interpretation

[Mira]

Or by the time she comes back Harry is not mortal anymore.

Problem with that is, he may not be mortal anymore, but that also means he is living. "She won't come back until her memory has faded from all who knew her," her memory will not have faded from his brain.  So if Harry is immortal, she may never come back.

[Arjan]

Problem with that is, he may not be mortal anymore, but that also means he is living. "She won't come back until her memory has faded from all who knew her," her memory will not have faded from his brain.  So if Harry is immortal, she may never come back.

Harry does not count for this if he is immortal. It was specifically about mortal memory otherwise vadderung can not rise anyone. He has a good memory.

[Dina]

That has been said for many people, but it is not what Gard said. Gard said "the living". I supposed she herself and other Valkyries and gods are excluded, but I don't know what happens with other immortals. Like Mab, for instance.

[forumghost]

I doubt that Immortals count, can you imagine if Odin couldn't summon his own troops until he'd forgotten about them?

It's probably more strictly until "Mortal Memory" has forgotten them.

[Mira]

That has been said for many people, but it is not what Gard said. Gard said "the living". I supposed she herself and other Valkyries and gods are excluded, but I don't know what happens with other immortals. Like Mab, for instance.

I do believe though that it was implied by Gard, not just the living, but those who loved her.  So her great, great, great niece fifty years from now, might know of Murphy if her family keeps her memory alive, but not love her, because she never knew her.

[Arjan]

Faded is not the same as gone, it is a little bit vague. It is a slow process.

[Avernite]

Or maybe it's only the Allfather (and puny humans-and-other-lesser-supernaturals) limited that way, and greater powers (e.g. Uriel acting through Harry and the tools of TWC's rebirth) could do it. And breaching the shroud of death will be a key part of gathering the mooks for the Apocalypse.

[Mira]

  You ever stop to think that the rule was made by the Allfather as a kindness to mortals who remember their beloved dead?

 Yes, some of the Einherjar were berserkers when living, but many were just ordinary men who were
good soldiers and did their jobs and died as good warriors should.  When they come back as Einherjar, they won't be as they were, we've seen how they fight.  When Murphy comes back, she will not be the Murphy of Harry's memory, no matter if he lives forever or not. 

That is a kindness to him, who remembers her as she was, and spares him confronting what she has become or will become, because it won't any longer be Murphy.