New Dresden Files podcast interview.

[Dina]

Yes, but Mab can literally force Harry to stab himself. She may not do it for the reasons you mentioned, a puppet Harry is not useful for Mab. Still, she could. If the blackstaff was just laying on the street, I am sure she could force Harry to give it to her. But if it was in Demonreach, she cpuldn't. 

[deadvoid]

Fae's cannot cross certain boundaries, for example telling a lie. They have some wiggle room so they can workaround their limitations, but that's not free will, they're very strict on tit for tat rules, duties, boundaries, and relationship protocols such as hospitality, keeping promises & anything related to balance.

So the question is: what about the Queen telling her knight to betray his other mantle rights & duties if she desires, such as giving her Blackstaff that Warden of Demonreach has confiscated? I think not, Harry being a WK is separate from Warden thus it's not possible to get him to betray his Warden's right from Fae perspective. She could offer him something for it, but command him: no.

[Arjan]

That's true in real life also. You can always defy someone trying to coerce you. The question is, are you willing to accept the consequences that they may inflict on you and remain resolute? It may not be realistic in extreme cases but defiance is always an option even if it's an unpalatable one.

But that is not the point. The concepts are real but the meaning of the word is shifted. You now have two groups of people who speak a slightly different language but are most probably not aware of it. It can lead to misunderstandings. It is also a way to influence your thinking. Or it can be an effort to change society.

If you do it on a large scale it can isolate groups of people because good communication with other people becomes impossible.

It can also be something completely innocent. Words shift meaning all the time because language evolves but that is not the case here.

[Dina]

Fae's cannot cross certain boundaries, for example telling a lie. They have some wiggle room so they can workaround their limitations, but that's not free will, they're very strict on tit for tat rules, duties, boundaries, and relationship protocols such as hospitality, keeping promises & anything related to balance.

So the question is: what about the Queen telling her knight to betray his other mantle rights & duties if she desires, such as giving her Blackstaff that Warden of Demonreach has confiscated? I think not, Harry being a WK is separate from Warden thus it's not possible to get him to betray his Warden's right from Fae perspective. She could offer him something for it, but command him: no.

I agree

[Arjan]

I agree

It is all about duties and obligations. Mab never prevented Harry from meeting his obligations. She even made sure that Toot’s pizza was delivered  because those things are important.

Harry has obligations to the island just like he has obligations to Toot. Harry had obligations to the white council but they threw them away. I think Mab would call that stupid but she won’t complain.

[Mira]

It is all about duties and obligations. Mab never prevented Harry from meeting his obligations. She even made sure that Toot’s pizza was delivered  because those things are important.

Harry has obligations to the island just like he has obligations to Toot. Harry had obligations to the white council but they threw them away. I think Mab would call that stupid but she won’t complain.

Actually she did call it stupid and short sighted, and that they'd be wanting him back before it was all over.

[Dina]

Yes, they did Mab a favor by freeing Harry of obligations to them and I expect payback will be a bitch  .

[TrueMonk]

I think that demonreach is a prison, not an armory. So while it is a really convenient place to stash weapons etc. keeping stuff on the island is not the focus of the wardens duty. As a result I do not think it would be against his warden duties to retrieve an object for Mab in general.

But then again with the eye of Balor specifically, that might count as something the island was built to contain.

Also I think it is important to differentiate between Harry's
1 ability to defy an order from Mab
2 Ability to deal with the consequences of defying
3 When he can fairly say no to an order/what orders Mab cannot give

I would say releasing specific prisoners from the islands would be no 3

[Mira]

I think that demonreach is a prison, not an armory. So while it is a really convenient place to stash weapons etc. keeping stuff on the island is not the focus of the wardens duty. As a result I do not think it would be against his warden duties to retrieve an object for Mab in general.

Perhaps, but at the same time I don't think she can force him to get them for her if he doesn't want to.

[Bad Alias]

Just when he thought he paid her in full, she moved the goal posts again to keep him on the hook so eventually he'd agree to be her Knight.

He never paid her in full. She never moved the goal posts.

So since he did agree, you haven't heard her mention the favors that he owes her, do you?

Again, so? Why would she remind him? So that he can put her in a position where she has to make a request? To foreshadow to readers that Harry is going to get out of being the Knight and how?

[Arjan]

When Mab wanted Harry’s debt to Lea she did not just seize it or commanded her to hand it over, she made a deal. I do not think Mab can just walk into the castle and ask for the furniture. It probably would not even occur to her.

[Mira]

When Mab wanted Harry’s debt to Lea she did not just seize it or commanded her to hand it over, she made a deal. I do not think Mab can just walk into the castle and ask for the furniture. It probably would not even occur to her.

She said she "purchased" his obligations to Lea.  Then Harry struck a bargain with Mab to do three favors.  And yes, she does move the goal posts, whenever she has appeared and asked something of Harry, he thinks he is holding up his end of the bargain.  For the first two it works, but he never can
quite finish off the last one, Mab keeps opening loop holes to keep him on the hook until eventually he becomes her Knight.

[Arjan]

She said she "purchased" his obligations to Lea.  Then Harry struck a bargain with Mab to do three favors.  And yes, she does move the goal posts, whenever she has appeared and asked something of Harry, he thinks he is holding up his end of the bargain.  For the first two it works, but he never can
quite finish off the last one, Mab keeps opening loop holes to keep him on the hook until eventually he becomes her Knight.

Mab did nothing like that. She was very straightforward. She just waited and Harry needed Mab before Mab needed Harry a third time. Why would she waste a favor just to get Harry of the hook?

She is immortal. She was not in a hurry to ask for that last favor and she assumed correctly that sooner or later Harry would need the power.

Yes she had all the cards but she was not moving goalposts. She was just making deals.

[Mira]

Yes she had all the cards but she was not moving goalposts. She was just making deals.

That depends on point of view, doesn't it?  So from Harry's stand point, she was moving the goal posts, from her point of view, merely making deals.

[Arjan]

That depends on point of view, doesn't it?  So from Harry's stand point, she was moving the goal posts, from her point of view, merely making deals.

How was she moving goal posts? Harry could have waited for her to ask the last favor and go for a darkhallow or Lasciel. He did not and that was a different deal nothing to do with the previous ones. The only one who played dirty was Harry with his suicide.