Dresden Files show

[Yuillegan]

We know that the Dresden Files would make a great television show - if done right.

And yes, there is a live-action version in production...but with covid-19 and everything else who knows what will happen there. Been a long time since we had any update on it. These things can sit in developmental hell for decades sometimes.

But I think an animate series would be both cheaper and probably more true to the books. Jim has often said he imagined it such when he writes. Now I could see something like the art style of some of those Love, Death + Robots shorts - think Sonnie's Edge (the arena bio-engineered fights), Suits (the farmhouse mech one), Sucker of Souls (Dracula one) or Beyond the Aquila Rift (the space horror one).

However I recently watched the Blood of Zeus series which while being mildly enjoyable was marred by poor writing, bad research or lazy interpretations and weird story choices. But I think it was done by the same people who do Castlevania. And in terms of animation at least, I actually think it might suit the Dresden Files the best. Especially the loud splashy magic and violence. Also, the monsters have the right feel I think for Dresden (particularly the Giants in BoZ - very Old One vibes).

Thoughts?

[Walter the skull]

I haven't seen any of the animated things you're mentioning.  My exposure to animate entertainment has been limited to things involving Batman, Star Wars, South Park, and Ninja Turtles (not the newest one which looks really dumb to me).  Spider Man also, but to a lesser degree.  I also play PC games when I get a chance, and I consider the cut scenes to be animated.  I prefer a realistic style such as what you see in the star wars shows and to an extent the turtles show from 2012.

One thing that I've been impressed with is how The Mandalorian has been able to seamlessly take characters and plot threads from The Clone Wars and Rebels and transition them to live action. 

Also CGI has gotten a lot better, faster to make, and probably cheaper in the 13 years since the first Dresden show.  I think one of the things Jim said about doing animated Dresden is that it would allow for some really epic battles and things that would be too costly for live action.  At least some of those epic battles may now be within reach for a live action show.

What I'm getting at is if you count CGI as a type of animation, the line between animated and live action has been blurring for a long time.  Hell we're having 3D models of dead actors being wrapped around people with similar physical proportions and having other people voice those characters.  That's similar to something animated.     

[Bad Alias]

I do prefer the non-cartoonish animation. I think the DF would work really well if done like Castelvania, but a bit more realistic with some of the settings, weapons, and such. A lot of that animation, the weapons, clothing, and setting is just ludicrous. Another advantage to an animated series is you can have characters age at the right rates. The immortals don't age, Harry ages slower, and regular mortals age regularly.

The problem with animation is that a lot of people will never take it seriously.

I don't know if doing it as an animated series would be a problem or a benefit on the business side of doing a series that covers 25 novels. I wouldn't be surprised if we never get a full Dresden Files series adaptation. Has anything that big ever been attempted? Some quick googling puts A Song of Ice and Fire at 1,770,000 words and DF at 1,997,201 words as of SG. Not counting PT, BG, or any short stories. And we're still about eight novels from being done. Three of those novels are supposed to be big door stopping tomes. Conservatively, that is going to be over three million words.

[Snark Knight]

Has anything that big ever been attempted? Some quick googling puts A Song of Ice and Fire at 1,770,000 words and DF at 1,997,201 words as of SG. Not counting PT, BG, or any short stories. And we're still about eight novels from being done. Three of those novels are supposed to be big door stopping tomes. Conservatively, that is going to be over three million words.

Urban detective fantasy is probably more conducive to quick pacing than epic political / military fantasy. An average Dresden book would probably translate to 2-3 TV episodes, rather than roughly 1 book per season like GOT was doing before it went off the rails. You could probably adapt SF-GP in a season, pretty much regardless of live or animated format.

[spiritofair]

I think 2 episodes for a Dresden Files book would be nearly criminal. So much of the mystery, backstory, character development would have to be cut that while it would be a story with the same characters and major action beats, it would not be the Dresden Files. I think 6 (earlier, shorter books) to 8 or 9 episodes (the longest books) per book would still move quickly, but would allow for the world building and character development that are required to do the stories justice.

[Snark Knight]

Well, Jim said the pilot of the first show - adapting SF in a two-parter - was the most faithful adaptation the first series did. Realistically, this is only going to stand a chance of happening if they can map multiple books to a season.

A streaming platform were the lengths aren't really fixed has more flexibility than a network show, though. That would be ideal, because they can cover some of the more important shorts too.

[Griffyn612]

I've always liked the idea of a Dresden anime from the artists that did Darker Than Black.

[Yuillegan]

Also CGI has gotten a lot better, faster to make, and probably cheaper in the 13 years since the first Dresden show.  I think one of the things Jim said about doing animated Dresden is that it would allow for some really epic battles and things that would be too costly for live action.  At least some of those epic battles may now be within reach for a live action show.

What I'm getting at is if you count CGI as a type of animation, the line between animated and live action has been blurring for a long time.  Hell we're having 3D models of dead actors being wrapped around people with similar physical proportions and having other people voice those characters.  That's similar to something animated.     

I get you, worth a google on those shows I mentioned if you're interested in the art work. Particularly Beyond the Aquila Rift and Sonnie's Edge in the anthology Love, Death and Robots - very much the CGI, game animation on those. Sonnie's Edge has an almost Cyberpunk 2077 vibe. But they are definitely more expensive than regular anime/cartoon style.

I do prefer the non-cartoonish animation. I think the DF would work really well if done like Castelvania, but a bit more realistic with some of the settings, weapons, and such. A lot of that animation, the weapons, clothing, and setting is just ludicrous. Another advantage to an animated series is you can have characters age at the right rates. The immortals don't age, Harry ages slower, and regular mortals age regularly.

The problem with animation is that a lot of people will never take it seriously.

I don't know if doing it as an animated series would be a problem or a benefit on the business side of doing a series that covers 25 novels. I wouldn't be surprised if we never get a full Dresden Files series adaptation. Has anything that big ever been attempted? Some quick googling puts A Song of Ice and Fire at 1,770,000 words and DF at 1,997,201 words as of SG. Not counting PT, BG, or any short stories. And we're still about eight novels from being done. Three of those novels are supposed to be big door stopping tomes. Conservatively, that is going to be over three million words.

Agreed. Yeah both Castlevania and Blood of Zeus have their issues. But it fits some of the wackiness of the Dresden Files. And it does solve the issues around actors growing up and supernatural effects. But you are right, some people will never take it seriously. Which is why you have to look to successful cult anime series - One Piece, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Marvel's Avenger's Assemble, Death Note, Avatar (both the Last Airbender and Legend of Korra) etc.

It can be done. Just have to get the right audience and either target a large enough existing audience or have a realistic idea of how many fans + new watchers would be interested. Plus sticking to what makes the Dresden Files good rather than random, useless changes that ruin it for both fans and new comers alike. It's a hard balance - most books don't adapt easily to the screen, and even when you do it's a constant battle. I also see it as an opportunity for Jim to correct some of his earlier errors and maybe even to restart the series a little earlier than Storm Front - something he said he would like to have done if he could do it again. He could also add in the novelas and short stories too. With the right team and the right planning and an appropriate budget, it could be great. I am sure it would be easier to do such a long series as an animation than live-action. The cost savings alone...

Urban detective fantasy is probably more conducive to quick pacing than epic political / military fantasy. An average Dresden book would probably translate to 2-3 TV episodes, rather than roughly 1 book per season like GOT was doing before it went off the rails. You could probably adapt SF-GP in a season, pretty much regardless of live or animated format.

Agreed, SF to GP is about right in either format. 1-2 books an episode would only work in the first series I suspect. After Dead Beat you'd miss too much.

Well, Jim said the pilot of the first show - adapting SF in a two-parter - was the most faithful adaptation the first series did. Realistically, this is only going to stand a chance of happening if they can map multiple books to a season.

A streaming platform were the lengths aren't really fixed has more flexibility than a network show, though. That would be ideal, because they can cover some of the more important shorts too.

Indeed, you'd have to do multiple books in a season. But season length can be played around with. Netflix or another big streaming service would be ideal regardless of the format.

I've always liked the idea of a Dresden anime from the artists that did Darker Than Black.

Definitely could work and would probably appeal more to the current anime market. Would have to be updated I think a little, but it's got a good tone.

[Mira]

I got introduced to the Dresden Files through the original series, which at the time I loved and was shocked when it was canceled.  I love the books even more, I went back and binge watched the show recently, and yes, the show had totally gone off the rails after the pilot, "Storm Front."  The question is why? The books are not so far "out there" that they couldn't be adapted for the small screen.  The special effects weren't all that elaborate either.  Jim must not have realized how much they'd mess with his characters and story line adapting it for television.  The one change they did do, that I loved was the character of Bob, but that might have been because of the actor as for any other reason. 

[Griffyn612]

Definitely could work and would probably appeal more to the current anime market. Would have to be updated I think a little, but it's got a good tone.

Yeah, it premiered 13+ years ago, so I'm sure they could update some things for the better but keep the dark tone.  I just don't know that something 3d would be necessary for Dresden, like Clone Wars or Rebels, and I don't like the cartoon animation of other shows like Resistance. (I'm not that familiar with modern anime, so my cartoon exposure is pretty limited to star wars these days)

[Mira]

Yeah, it premiered 13+ years ago, so I'm sure they could update some things for the better but keep the dark tone.  I just don't know that something 3d would be necessary for Dresden, like Clone Wars or Rebels, and I don't like the cartoon animation of other shows like Resistance. (I'm not that familiar with modern anime, so my cartoon exposure is pretty limited to star wars these days)

Yeah, they could do something along the lines of the Madalorian.  I don't like the idea of doing the Dresden Files as a cartoon, it is more suited to live action in my opinion.

[Bad Alias]

Which is why you have to look to successful cult anime series - ... Avatar (both the Last Airbender and Legend of Korra) etc.

The Last Airbender is in my top two T.V. series of all time. The other is Babylon 5, and that has a heavy "first time I've ever seen something like that factor to it." I'm not sure which takes number 1.

It's a hard balance - most books don't adapt easily to the screen.

I know I've mentioned Magnum P.I. before, but the way that series was done would probably work really well for the Dresden Files. It's largely from Magnum's perspective and Tom Selleck narrates a lot of the show as Magnum. It's also kind of funny how many similarities Magnum and Dresden have. P.I.'s, always having money trouble, tall, live underground, boy scouts, troubled past, underestimated by enemies.

[Yuillegan]

Yeah, it premiered 13+ years ago, so I'm sure they could update some things for the better but keep the dark tone.  I just don't know that something 3d would be necessary for Dresden, like Clone Wars or Rebels, and I don't like the cartoon animation of other shows like Resistance. (I'm not that familiar with modern anime, so my cartoon exposure is pretty limited to star wars these days)

No of course it wouldn't be necessary to have 3D. It might even be easier in 2D. You'd have to think more about what would work better for the show versus where the market is and how successful it would be. The animation for Clone Wars or Rebels doesn't gel for me, but that's my personal preference too.

Yeah, they could do something along the lines of the Madalorian.  I don't like the idea of doing the Dresden Files as a cartoon, it is more suited to live action in my opinion.

With a big enough budget, it might be amazing. The problems start when the budget isn't there and it gets worse the more they change just so it suits the whims of producers. I was a bit concerned when a reboot was discussed and I am just hoping it will work. Hard to even get multiple seasons now as well no matter how good you are.

The Last Airbender is in my top two T.V. series of all time. The other is Babylon 5, and that has a heavy "first time I've ever seen something like that factor to it." I'm not sure which takes number 1.
I know I've mentioned Magnum P.I. before, but the way that series was done would probably work really well for the Dresden Files. It's largely from Magnum's perspective and Tom Selleck narrates a lot of the show as Magnum. It's also kind of funny how many similarities Magnum and Dresden have. P.I.'s, always having money trouble, tall, live underground, boy scouts, troubled past, underestimated by enemies.

The Last Airbender is in my top two T.V. series of all time. The other is Babylon 5, and that has a heavy "first time I've ever seen something like that factor to it." I'm not sure which takes number 1.
I know I've mentioned Magnum P.I. before, but the way that series was done would probably work really well for the Dresden Files. It's largely from Magnum's perspective and Tom Selleck narrates a lot of the show as Magnum. It's also kind of funny how many similarities Magnum and Dresden have. P.I.'s, always having money trouble, tall, live underground, boy scouts, troubled past, underestimated by enemies.

Oh yeah, the Last Airbender is great. Jim has even said in his dreams he would like that team to do Dresden as an animated series. And he's also quite the fan of Babylon 5, so I can see that working. Two quite different yet fantastic shows. Magnum P.I. would definitely work for the earlier books but I think into the middle of the series it wouldn't quite work. But I agree, some elements like the narration would really suit and there are definitely some similarities between the two works.

[Bad Alias]

The animation for Clone Wars or Rebels doesn't gel for me, but that's my personal preference too.

I can't stand the Clone Wars animation. I'd be so disappointed if they made a DF cartoon that looked like Clone Wars. The animation in Rebels seemed to be a little more refined to me.

Magnum P.I. would definitely work for the earlier books but I think into the middle of the series it wouldn't quite work. But I agree, some elements like the narration would really suit and there are definitely some similarities between the two works.

I bring up Magnum, P.I. for a Dresden Files show more to show that a first person perspective can work in a T.V. show just as well as in a book. Quantum Leap, another one of my favorites, was pretty similar for those elements of largely done just from the main character's perspective with the main character doing a lot of narration. Both shows were produced by and either created or co-created by Donald P. Bellisario.

The reason Magnum and not Quantum Leap came to my mind were because of all the character similarities between Magnum and Harry. I think that both shows illustrate that first person perspective books can be adapted to T.V./movies without completely changing the structure of the story.

And he's also quite the fan of Babylon 5, so I can see that working.

I wasn't really thinking of how B5 could be applied to making the Dresden Files T.V. show, but I can see a similarity in it's story structure to the books. The case files are both episodic and serial in nature like the episodes of B5. What I mean by that, for those who haven't seen B5, almost is every episode of B5 was a self contained story, like each case file. You didn't need see all the other episodes for any particular episode to make sense as a story. But you did need to see almost every episode to know what was going on in the overarching story. Pretty much every episode advanced either the overall narrative or a major plot thread.

[Kindler]

Personally, I liked the fight scenes in Fate:Zero the best of most recent anime. FMA:Brotherhood was good, and I think it's probably the closest thing to the scale of what we'd see in a Dresden Files adaptation (it's one of a few anime I've watched that handled small, personal stories with dramatic fight scenes and large, scaled-up battles in the same show). Though I haven't watched Naruto, and if they followed the manga, that's probably the last season or three.
Honestly, I think the Death Note style might be a bit off for Dresden. It's a little too realistic; I prefer it when they don't try to capture human anatomy as closely as DN did. I had some similar nits to pick with Castlevania.
Of recent adaptations, I actually thought Promised Neverland had the right approach to character modeling. Semi-realistic, but with just enough exaggerated features to avoid Uncanny Valley and difficulty with fluid motion. Maybe even something like Golden Kamuy would be appropriate; I don't recall any non-Japanese or Ainu character models from the manga, but it's got outstanding character design, in my opinion.
As long as it doesn't go full 2010-now Disney or Pixar, I think it could probably be made to work, regardless of what happens.