Things you wish Harry said or did in PT / BG

[KurtinStGeorge]

There have been a few times in the series when I thought Jim missed an opportunity for Harry to say something cool or funny.  Though mostly, there are times when I wish Harry would get off the guilt trip or just share something, because the wizard secrecy thing can be a drag too.  Of course, then it wouldn't be the Harry Dresden we know.

In Battle Ground I thought there were a couple times Harry might have said something different that might have been fun or interesting, so I'll tell you one of them.  When Ebenezer and Harry first talked in Battle Ground, Eb said to Harry, "You look a little green, Hoss."  Instead of telling Ebenezer that he got seasick, Harry should have said, "It was a little rough on the lake coming back in, and I had to fight a kraken.  I don't think I would be here to tell you this Sir, if I hadn't had a White Court vampire around to help me."  It wouldn't improved Ebenezer's mood any, but he had it coming after the crap he gave Harry in PT.

So, was there anything you would have liked to have Harry say or do in either Peace Talks or Battle Ground?

[forumghost]

"No Carlos, I didn't sleep with, and in fact physically can't sleep with, Lara. I will not become unreasonably offended and threaten violence over what is a perfectly reasonable question, considering I've been running off to see a mind controlling sex-vampire behind the Council's back."

[Arjan]

"No Carlos, I didn't sleep with, and in fact physically can't sleep with, Lara. I will not become unreasonably offended and threaten violence over what is a perfectly reasonable question, considering I've been running off to see a mind controlling sex-vampire behind the Council's back."

Always stay reasonable and calm when somebody tries to get you angry.

The problem with telling Carlos about the true love protection is that he probably does not know about the possibility so he probably thinks it is a self serving lie. And it might endanger Murphy.

[Mira]

I think by the time Peace Talks starts, minds have already been made up.  Eb is deaf to anything positive Harry has to say about Thomas, in fact it only adds gasoline to the personal fire in his gut leading to him totally losing control.  Same with Carlos, he was severely injured trying to have sex with the Winter Lady, who used to be Molly, the apprentice he was attracted to.  Maybe at the beginning of Peace Talks he says he voted for Harry, but his prejudices are already baked into the cake.  Harry didn't help by humiliating him at the Talks with what he pulled, he wasn't going to listen anyway so I don't blame Harry for even trying.  Look at what Carlos said when he came to tell Harry he was out.  That wasn't just a tough law enforcement officer doing his job, it was a bitter angry man willing to blame everything on Harry.

[forumghost]

I'd be bitter and angry too if I kept sticking my neck out for my friend, only to have him throw it back in my face, threaten me when I show concern about him, attack me for no explained reason, and never show me even the slightest hint of trust. All while he gets buddy-buddy with a Mind-Controlling Rapist and acts like that shouldn't be a thing to be concerned about.

Seriously, Harry treats Carlos like shit in PT/BG.

Like, c'mon Dresden, there's options that exist between "Stonewall everyone 100%" and "Tell them about everything"

[Mira]

I'd be bitter and angry too if I kept sticking my neck out for my friend, only to have him throw it back in my face, threaten me when I show concern about him, attack me for no explained reason, and never show me even the slightest hint of trust. All while he gets buddy-buddy with a Mind-Controlling Rapist and acts like that shouldn't be a thing to be concerned about.

Seriously, Harry treats Carlos like shit in PT/BG.

Like, c'mon Dresden, there's options that exist between "Stonewall everyone 100%" and "Tell them about everything"

I think the cape thing was horrible, however as far as talking to Carlos, what could have Harry said?  Carlos didn't ask questions, he just said, "talk to me.."  Often when someone says that, they are telling you, "yeah, you are guilty as hell, now justify it."  It also sounds like the reasons for kicking Harry out were the same old reasons, so how could Harry answer that? 

Well, shit, there was stuff Harry couldn't say, even if he wanted to.  For starters, he is scanned to see if he has had sex before the question is asked, then by tone, it is assumed that he is screwing Lara.  Then there is the further assumption that he was mind controlled and already a suspect because of the discovery of the tracking dot... So in short the Wardens no longer trusted Harry, that was the silent communication from Chandler.. So why in the hell should Harry trust them to talk to them in return?  Remember the Miranda routine, it holds for Wardens of the White Council as well, "everything you say can and will be used against you."  So yeah, good reasons not to talk.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I've thought there have been times when Harry should share SOME secrets with SOME characters.  Harry would have to be judicious in what he revealed and to whom, but the tendency of Harry and White Council members to jealousy guard most secrets seems incredibly counter productive when the secret you know provides little context for understanding its meaning and no ability to gain allies who might help you in the long-run.  (Yes, Harry let the Erlking know that his mother was Margaret LeFay, but that seems a really minor secret to me; even if we hadn't learned that Lara already knew this.)

What I was thinking after reading Battle Ground is that during their final conversation, Harry might said something like this to Carlos:

"Warden Ramirez, before you leave I have one last thing to tell you.  You're right, I have been keeping secrets from you.  I swear to you, sharing any or all of them with you couldn't have stopped what happened here tonight.  I know that doesn't satisfy you so I will share this with you. 

You know how I exposed Peabody as a traitor at Warden Morgan's trial.  What you don't know is that I held back some vital information in my testimony.   There was another wizard with Peabody when he attacked members of the Senior Council on the island out on Lake Michigan.  I don't know who it was, I just know there was another spellcaster there.  In fact, for all I know it could have been you, though I don't believe that.  Now if you think I'm lying to you, you have no reason to report what I just told you to anyone on the Council.  If it's a lie, then it would be useless information, wouldn't it?  But, if I'm telling you the truth; and I swear 'Los, by my magic that I am, you can't tell anyone else on Council what I just told you.  You could be reporting this to the very traitor Peabody was working with, or they might tell it to the traitor and in either case your life expectancy would probably get a lot shorter.  Maybe one day we can talk about this some more, but for now you know some of what I have had to deal with.  Good luck Warden."

Perhaps that would be too dangerous to share with Ramirez, but at some point Harry is going to have to move beyond his self imposed boundaries and start trusting someone.   

[Mira]

"Warden Ramirez, before you leave I have one last thing to tell you.  You're right, I have been keeping secrets from you.  I swear to you, sharing any or all of them with you couldn't have stopped what happened here tonight.  I know that doesn't satisfy you so I will share this with you. 

Perhaps,but even if Harry was willing to share at that moment, do you think Carlos was willing to listen? He was in full Warden mode, he thought he was acting as a friend when he said the Council pulled it off while with both Eb and Listens to Wind were in surgery.  He is also blaming the fact that because Harry didn't talk to him, 60,000 people died.  Carlos was humiliated by Harry's cape trick, which I don't blame him for being, crippled, because of the Winter Lady, Harry is the Winter Knight, feeling the loss of friends,forgetting maybe that they were Harry's friends too. He is totally pissed at Harry on a number of levels.  No, there was nothing Harry could have said, not at that point..  That is why when Carlos was finished with his message'

Harry

I let out a frustrated breath.

He knew there was nothing more he could say other than he wasn't going to let the White Council bully him into compliance.. That last could have been simply bravado...

[Dina]

The first time, when the wardens ask Harry if he had slept with someone, he did not know that he was protected. And that is good, because if he had announced he was protected..how would they do the illusion later?

But in the rest, yes, Kurtin, I wish Harry has said something like that. Or at least share SOME information with Carlos when they had the time to talk privately.

I also wish he has been more grateful to the Knights and to the Alphas.

And I wish he had told us readers that he gave the Spear to Alfred because he did not and that worries me.

[Smaug with OCD]

*Open scene near the end of Harry and Carlos' conversation in BG*


"It was Murphy, by the way."

"What?" Carlos turned back.

"You guys scanned my sex life. When I refused to answer... It was Karin."

Carlos looked ill, his eyes locked on me for a long, long second. Then he turned away. "I'm sorry, Harry." His voice cracked as he spoke. Then he was gone, vanishing under a veil that was nowhere near as good as Molly's.

[Snark Knight]

Shot Mavra & co in the back with incendiary rounds. Probably would have only tickled Drakul, but wounding a couple of the blamps and forcing them to withdraw to deal with being on fire might have lessened their losses. Oh, and .... actually use the necromantic weakness he's been keeping secret, once he recognized Mavra.

Use ice magic for more than just the one trick with the wall to delay the Jotuns. Twice he was acting helpless because Rudolph had a gun on him, when in Changes he froze that hit man's gun in the church in a split second so it wouldn't fire. That read like he got nerfed for narrative reasons, but then was back to throwing haymakers twenty pages later.

[Bad Alias]

What I was thinking after reading Battle Ground is that during their final conversation, Harry might said something like this to Carlos:

"Warden Ramirez, before you leave I have one last thing to tell you. 

...you can't tell anyone else on Council what I just told you.  You could be reporting this to the very traitor Peabody was working with, or they might tell it to the traitor and in either case your life expectancy would probably get a lot shorter.  Maybe one day we can talk about this some more, but for now you know some of what I have had to deal with.  Good luck Warden."

Put an "and that's about the least dangerous secret I've been keeping" in there.

I wanted him to tear into Carlos. Harry's done and sacrificed so much for the Council in return for them not killing him. And that was before Changes when the Council ignored him in his hour of need. Sure the Council didn't know why he needed there help so much because one of the most senior members told him that he couldn't trust the Council with that information.

The Council is really crappy.

[Dina]

*Open scene near the end of Harry and Carlos' conversation in BG*


"It was Murphy, by the way."

"What?" Carlos turned back.

"You guys scanned my sex life. When I refused to answer... It was Karin."

Carlos looked ill, his eyes locked on me for a long, long second. Then he turned away. "I'm sorry, Harry." His voice cracked as he spoke. Then he was gone, vanishing under a veil that was nowhere near as good as Molly's.

That would have been awesome, and I wish we see a version of this in 12M

[Mira]

Put an "and that's about the least dangerous secret I've been keeping" in there.

I wanted him to tear into Carlos. Harry's done and sacrificed so much for the Council in return for them not killing him. And that was before Changes when the Council ignored him in his hour of need. Sure the Council didn't know why he needed there help so much because one of the most senior members told him that he couldn't trust the Council with that information.

The Council is really crappy.

Yeah, that is what set Michael off, cussing like a drunken sailor overboard hollering for more water..

[KurtinStGeorge]

*Open scene near the end of Harry and Carlos' conversation in BG*


"It was Murphy, by the way."

"What?" Carlos turned back.

"You guys scanned my sex life. When I refused to answer... It was Karin."

Carlos looked ill, his eyes locked on me for a long, long second. Then he turned away. "I'm sorry, Harry." His voice cracked as he spoke. Then he was gone, vanishing under a veil that was nowhere near as good as Molly's.

Damn, that's good.