Mac's True Nature (spoilers for BG)

[Bad Alias]

Got that, but it still isn't clear what Mac was a bit upset about.  That is what I wanted a WOJ about.

I don't think Griff was saying there were any on point WoJ.

[Mira]

I don't think Griff was saying there were any on point WoJ.

Yeah, and as I said, if someone asks, he will giggle evilly and sing.." I ain't a going to tell you..."

[Dina]

I actually think is both things. Mac was not happy of Harry realizing what he is (an ex-angel, apparently). He was also hesitant about the placard, I couldn't say why.

[Arjan]

I actually think is both things. Mac was not happy of Harry realizing what he is (an ex-angel, apparently). He was also hesitant about the placard, I couldn't say why.

It is risk and involvement and it might draw the attention of those you want to avoid. He has to look at the long term consequences.

[Dina]

I should have been clearer. Yes, I have my interpretation about that, but as it is not explicitly stablished, I don't know. I personally think you are right and also I insist, there is some hesitation in placing his blood in something so Holy. I am sure for Mac the placard meant a lot more than to Harry. For Harry, it is a mean for an end, for Mac is a memory full of significance. And, of course, a symbol. And symbols are important.

[Mira]

It is risk and involvement and it might draw the attention of those you want to avoid. He has to look at the long term consequences.

Yes, and it is one thing to declare the bar neutral territory, all are welcome to enter the bar, saints, sinners, wizards, quacks, fae, and even Outsiders.  Of course they are supposed to play nice and abide by the rules of hospitality etc.. Not unlike Switzerland during WWI and WWII.  As defined;

Despite the apparent precision of these legal terms, neutrality for Switzerland during World War II, as well as for the other continental European countries that claimed neutral status during that period -- Portugal, Sweden, Spain, and the Vatican -- can best be summed up by the phrase, self-interested noncombatant.

However when Mac smeared his blood on the Placard, it was an oath that the bad guys would have to go through him if they wanted in the bar.  He became an interested combatant, whether he ever stuck a blow or not, he had taken a side.

[Telynn]

Yes, and it is one thing to declare the bar neutral territory, all are welcome to enter the bar, saints, sinners, wizards, quacks, fae, and even Outsiders.  Of course they are supposed to play nice and abide by the rules of hospitality etc.. Not unlike Switzerland during WWI and WWII.  As defined;

However when Mac smeared his blood on the Placard, it was an oath that the bad guys would have to go through him if they wanted in the bar.  He became an interested combatant, whether he ever stuck a blow or not, he had taken a side.

And that would be the question, in how the placard works.  How does it determine who is the 'bad guy'.  Would Mac be in control of who the protection works for, he decides who is the 'bad guy'?  Or does it protect anyone within the threshold from anyone who wants to harm them?  If it is the former, Mac would be taking a side. If it is the latter, then he isn't taking a side, just putting his life on the line to protect whomever is in the bar.  Be interesting to see how it plays out in later books.

[Mira]

And that would be the question, in how the placard works.  How does it determine who is the 'bad guy'.  Would Mac be in control of who the protection works for, he decides who is the 'bad guy'?  Or does it protect anyone within the threshold from anyone who wants to harm them?  If it is the former, Mac would be taking a side. If it is the latter, then he isn't taking a side, just putting his life on the line to protect whomever is in the bar.  Be interesting to see how it plays out in later books.

But how can he judge who is the bad guy if it is neutral territory?

[Arjan]

But how can he judge who is the bad guy if it is neutral territory?

The one who disturbs the peace in your neutral territory.

[Telynn]

The one who disturbs the peace in your neutral territory.

Which would mean he isn't taking sides.  If the protection is for anyone in the bar, from anyone who would harm them.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

I take that to mean, Mac isn't afraid to stand at the door with his shotgun to protect those people.  However he doesn't want to commit to using the Placard.. Theory, putting his blood on the Placard commits him to sacrificing himself to save those people just like the Man on the Cross.  That is taking a side, one he had turned his back on long ago and got kicked out of Heaven for.  Harry clearly wants him to use the Placard, and now wants to know who he really is and tries to look at him with his sight.  Mac stops him, gentally says "don't hurt yourself.."  Doesn't say what he really is either.

I think there's easier explanation for Mac's anxiety and dismay than notion that in some way using Placard breaks his neutrality (because it does not at least by letter by Accords) - simply I mean this is Relic of celestial nature, with power of Logos Incarnated behind it, ergo something Mac left long ago - and it's hard to say what's his current position on this choice.

I think it's sort of guilt, regret, and such things.

[Dina]

More or less along the lines of what I was saying.

[Mira]

I think there's easier explanation for Mac's anxiety and dismay than notion that in some way using Placard breaks his neutrality (because it does not at least by letter by Accords) - simply I mean this is Relic of celestial nature, with power of Logos Incarnated behind it, ergo something Mac left long ago - and it's hard to say what's his current position on this choice.

I think it's sort of guilt, regret, and such things.

  Yes, I think that may be more to the point than his neutrality or taking sides.  I don't think Mac cares one way or the other if someone recognizes what he is, Vadderung seems to know, the Outsiders called him by name.  Seeing the Placard and committing to what it stands for by smearing his blood on it, revisits a choice he made long ago, it will be interesting to see if this is a turning point and we see Mac evolving.  Kind of like the shadow of Lasciel becoming Lash, yes, partly because of Harry, not unlike Mac, but a couple of more subtle personal things which I think were the real moments that began to change her.  The first one was after Harry burned his hand so severely and Butters gave him a guitar to learn to play as physical therapy.  Lasciel helped him and made a sad little comment with a hint of regret, she hadn't been able to make music in a very, very, long time.  The second happened in Proven Guilty I believe, after he got back with Molly, Charity et all, they took refuge with Father Forthill.  Harry wanders into the church proper and Lasciel now more Lash than Lasciel, says:

Lasciel's voide came to me, very quietly, and sounded odd.  Sad. It is beautiful here.

Lasciel hadn't been reminded in a long long time what it was she gave up when she followed Lucifer, and she hadn't regretted her choice.. But I believe the two incidences began to make her maybe rethink a bit.  I think when he put that blood on the Placard, Mac may not have regretted his choice all these years, but he may begin to rethink.

[Griffyn612]

Imma put this here...

In the Books of Enoch, the first Book of Enoch devotes much of its attention to the fall of the watchers. The Second Book of Enoch addresses the watchers (Gk. egrḗgoroi) who are in fifth heaven where the fall took place. The Third Book of Enoch gives attention to the unfallen watchers.[10]

The use of the term "watchers" is common in the Book of Enoch. The Book of the Watchers (1 Enoch 6–36) occurs in the Aramaic fragments with the phrase irin we-qadishin, "Watchers and Holy Ones", a reference to Aramaic Daniel.[11] The Aramaic irin "watchers" is rendered as "angel" (Greek angelos, Coptic malah) in the Greek and Ethiopian translations, although the usual Aramaic term for angel malakha does not occur in Aramaic Enoch.[12]

Some[who?] have attempted to date this section of 1 Enoch to around the 2nd–1st century BC and they believe this book is based on one interpretation of the Sons of God passage in Genesis 6, according to which angels mated with human females, giving rise to a race of hybrids known as the Nephilim. The term irin is primarily applied to disobedient watchers who numbered a total of 200, and of whom their leaders are named, but equally Aramaic iri ("watcher" singular) is also applied to the obedient archangels who chain them, such as Raphael (1 Enoch 22:6).

Imma see myself out... 

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

The main argument against it is - I think fact that Mab lists Rapahel as one of active archangels.