[major BG spoilers] About the Council.

[Mira]

Alfred can be remarkably restrained. In cold days he could have taken more action against Maeve and he did not. Mab thanked him for it.

Actually I don't think he could, unless she found the tunnel that led to the prison itself.  He could make everyone feel uncomfortable, but he couldn't do anything that would reveal what was really there.  Hey even the Denarians didn't seem to know what was really on the island in Small Favor. Heck if Harry had fully understood what he had done and what power that gave him on the island, Shaggy wouldn't have been able to do squat.  As it was, though Harry suddenly was aware of everything, until Alfred taught him he wasn't aware of his control.

[ClintACK]

It could be because they’re trying to leverage the Blackstaff again. If Harry steps out of line they’ll order (re-order?) Eb to kill him, and if Eb refuses then the WC will exile or try to kill Eb, or something.

This. Entirely this. Harry's just a pawn/excuse here in hardball politics by centuries-old wizards.

Carlos even told Harry -- "By unanimous vote, they have already given the Blackstaff the order to execute your death warrant, and suspended it. If you cross the line, they'll send him. And if he won't do it, he'll be charged with treason."

This is the Merlin's ultimate Sword of Damocles to hold over Eb's head -- passed by a "unanimous vote", while Eb and LtW were in the hospital and Rashid was at the Outer Gates.

[BrainFireBob]

Someone in another thread suggested that the WC might have done it as a way to try and leverage Harry surrendering the Eye of Balor as payment for getting back in. I could totally see that, but that's about the only thing that sort of makes sense to me.

That was me.

Could also be about the Spear of Destiny, on reflection. And Harry didn't hide that he brought the Placard to Mac's.

The loa could have reported on all these things.

[Arjan]

Actually I don't think he could, unless she found the tunnel that led to the prison itself.  He could make everyone feel uncomfortable, but he couldn't do anything that would reveal what was really there.  Hey even the Denarians didn't seem to know what was really on the island in Small Favor. Heck if Harry had fully understood what he had done and what power that gave him on the island, Shaggy wouldn't have been able to do squat.  As it was, though Harry suddenly was aware of everything, until Alfred taught him he wasn't aware of his control.

That was before Harry woke it up again.

[Mira]

That was before Harry woke it up again.

He still couldn't act without orders.  If he could, do you think he'd allow his new Warden to be in the kind of danger he was in when he fought Shaggy?

[Arjan]

He still couldn't act without orders.  If he could, do you think he'd allow his new Warden to be in the kind of danger he was in when he fought Shaggy?

Apparently. Kringle specifically spoke about the island now shielding Harry from Anduriel spying because he awoke the island. During turn coat they did not know each other that well.

But the island could make deals with Mab and bonea. The island could take decisions about how to handle the ladies. I think it was not fully awake during turncoat. It has to develop skills for communicating with Harry as well.

[Telynn]

I think Harry giving it a name (Alfred) will be a big deal.  It might have made him more...  I don't know... real? Giving something a name seems to be really important in this series and Harry unknowingly is running around doing that all over the place.

[Bad Alias]

This is the Merlin's ultimate Sword of Damocles to hold over Eb's head -- passed by a "unanimous vote", while Eb and LtW were in the hospital and Rashid was at the Outer Gates.

This seems foolish. My brother finished the book this weekend, so we started talking about it. His big complaint is the conversation with Carlos. Harry's just not there for it, which I get. He's too drained to care too much. Anyway, my brother made the point that the Council has thrown away it's top two field soldiers. First Morgan and now Harry. And they're threatening to get rid of the Blackstaff?!? Like Eb's just going to accept it?

Kicking Harry out only really makes sense to me if elements in the Council are being stupid and other elements need Harry out so he can operate outside of the strictures of the Council.

[forumghost]

This seems foolish. My brother finished the book this weekend, so we started talking about it. His big complaint is the conversation with Carlos. Harry's just not there for it, which I get. He's too drained to care too much. Anyway, my brother made the point that the Council has thrown away it's top two field soldiers. First Morgan and now Harry. And they're threatening to get rid of the Blackstaff?!? Like Eb's just going to accept it?

Kicking Harry out only really makes sense to me if elements in the Council are being stupid and other elements need Harry out so he can operate outside of the strictures of the Council.

I think the theory is less that they want to throw away Eb, but want to put him in line. From what we've seen the Senior Council was originally divided into two Blocks; The Merlin, Mai, and La Fortier on one side and Simon, LTW, and Martha Liberty on the other, with Rashid largely away from things. Then Simon and La Fortier died and it became The Merlin and Mai on one side with Eb, LTW and Martha Liberty on the other, with Christos playing for power.

Essentially, The Merlin could be holding a death sentence over Harry's head to re-establish control over the Senior Council from Eb's Block. Politics.

Not sure I buy it though.

[BrainFireBob]

I think Harry giving it a name (Alfred) will be a big deal.  It might have made him more...  I don't know... real? Giving something a name seems to be really important in this series and Harry unknowingly is running around doing that all over the place.

My pet theory is that starborn are walking conjunctions, giving them a limited ability to alter reality.

So, power over Outsiders because they can accept them "inside" and then hurt them. Power over Names, which lets them alter nature.

And Harry's big mouth, yes.

[Avernite]

I think we're overlooking Ramirez.

Sure, Harry has pull with young wizards, but he's also scary. But he had unscary friend young wizards. And if ALL the cool young wizards like him, can he be THAT bad as the Merlin wants you to think?

Ah, but then BG (and cold case) happened. Suddenly Harry is annoying Ramirez at every turn (hanging with 'ooh the virgin snack' Raith, 'I kicked you to a pulp' Carpenter, and to boot messing with his cloak for no good reason), and then all his friends died. Ramirez, too, is utterly beaten up and angry at Harry and his friends.

So now the Merlin can make his powerplay without annoying the 'cool kids' too much. They'll still swing mostly back around because, well, Harry IS on the right side (mostly, see getting burned by Butters) - but for now there was bad blood, and a political animal like the Merlin smelled it.

And if Harry had accepted their ridiculous terms... well then he wouldn't be more unconstrained than he was as a Warden, either. Being able to make Harry Dresden do your bidding would've done plenty to offset not having Harry Dresden around to come kick them.

[Dina]

I definitely think Harry did not handle things with Ramirez well. He could have told him things, like "Please, Carlos. I have my reasons and they are not Mab related. Please, trust me" and simply, not lying to him. It is much better to say "I can't tell you" than to tell a lie. And I was very angry when Ramirez told him that he shouldn't have be with Mab, he should have told him "I did it for my daughter, what choice did I have?" or something like that.

I also understand Ramirez being wary of Mab, but precisely with Harry having previous commitments to the Council, Mab would respect them.  Firing Harry frees Mab.

[forumghost]

Yeah, Harry was a total moron with Carlos in PT.

Carlos: "Bro, are you fucking the evil vampire queen"

Harry: "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, how dare you ask me about my personal life you asshole"

Like jesus dude, are you fucking trying to make him think that you are enthralled???

[Rigil Kent]

Yeah, Harry was a total moron with Carlos in PT.

Carlos: "Bro, are you fucking the evil vampire queen"

Harry: "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, how dare you ask me about my personal life you asshole"

Like jesus dude, are you fucking trying to make him think that you are enthralled???

At the same time, I feel like the Wardens had already convinced themselves that he was, so whatever he'd say would be either ignored or construed as deception. I don't disagree that he should have said, flat-out, "No. Hell no." but I'm not sure they would have believed him at all...

[wardenferry419]

This seems foolish. My brother finished the book this weekend, so we started talking about it. His big complaint is the conversation with Carlos. Harry's just not there for it, which I get. He's too drained to care too much. Anyway, my brother made the point that the Council has thrown away it's top two field soldiers. First Morgan and now Harry. And they're threatening to get rid of the Blackstaff?!? Like Eb's just going to accept it?

Kicking Harry out only really makes sense to me if elements in the Council are being stupid and other elements need Harry out so he can operate outside of the strictures of the Council.

I think that is a key point. Someone's goal is to fracture the Council. What do you do? Set up a disruptive mole.(Peabody) Eliminate one of it's staunch supporters. (Morgan) Have people question the actions of fringe elements.(Harry) Divide up key personnel. (Grey Council)